Satchshift...

26th January 2011, 13:50

After seeing these awhile ago on a 205 I have always thought they where a good idea!

Then the other day after seeing Lewismo with one and having a search I found out Mr Satchell was doing a kit!

Have spoken with Colin via email and he was happy for me to post this up for anyones information!

The is a kit available for the MA and BE gearbox!

MA Type kit is £280 + £15 P+P

BE Type kit is £300 + £15 P+P

He said he was more than happy to deal with people directly so if you want one drop him a email: colinsatchell@btconnect.com

Fitting Guide!

26th January 2011, 13:58

Mark has one too already fitted on here. Got his a few weeks ago. Very good value for money, if you replace all the standard gearing with a cheaper quickshift and standard replacment linkages and control rods etc from citroen I bet it would come to near the same price for this kit.

26th January 2011, 14:14

yep i love my, had myn about 3weeks now, was 1st person on here with it i think ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark1311

o yer for got pictures haha.,..

shifter

steering colum.

26th January 2011, 19:09

Got mine sat in my room ready to fit! Epic bit of kit and Engineering!

28th January 2011, 13:59

What's the advantage of this?
Apart from looking cooler

28th January 2011, 14:32

This is what Lewis said about it..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewisimo

Yes that's about spot on buddy. It's basically a totally redesigned set of gear linkages/gear stick, for race applications mainly. Does away with all the gash standard parts, removes the sloppy feel from the gear stick, and makes changing a whole lot more precise. Basically the same job as a TAS quickshift but 100 times better and more developed to achieve better performance overall. The build of it is ace, all the parts are top notch, and it's not that expensive considering it's much better than anything that pug sport ever came up with....they are designed and made by Colin Satchell, he's Sandy Brown's 'sidekick' so to speak. Top lads

28th January 2011, 14:48

The kit also moves the stick back a little and the gearknob higher up!

28th January 2011, 15:21

I am not knocking the kit,not in any way --looks very good ,but those you who are not the smoothest of drivers could find the the synchro,s will not last long ,with no rubber or I say again i am not knocking the conversion ,but experience has shown me that over enthusistic lightning gear shifts with no cushioning in the linkage ends up with broken synchro rings --buy it ,but just remember that you cannot expect any syncho box to like being used lke a sequential one with very short shifts andno electronics to cut the power on gear engagement ,so just remember to lift the throttle on gear changing and be smooth .
the rubber cushions on std linkage allow the synchro to bounce to find its correct engagment ,solid links means it will smash it home even if its not lining up correctly ,causing excessive wear .
the ma gets an unfair bad reputation --its the bad drivers that cause most of the damage not the design of the g/box.
ideal system for a dog box though -as you have to feel the engagment anyway to get smooothest changes --just be careful if fitting to a std synchro box

28th January 2011, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

I am not knocking the kit,not in any way --looks very good ,but those you who are not the smoothest of drivers could find the the synchro,s will not last long ,with no rubber or I say again i am not knocking the conversion ,but experience has shown me that over enthusistic lightning gear shifts with no cushioning in the linkage ends up with broken synchro rings --buy it ,but just remember that you cannot expect any syncho box to like being used lke a sequential one with very short shifts andno electronics to cut the power on gear engagement ,so just remember to lift the throttle on gear changing and be smooth .
the rubber cushions on std linkage allow the synchro to bounce to find its correct engagment ,solid links means it will smash it home even if its not lining up correctly ,causing excessive wear .
the ma gets an unfair bad reputation --its the bad drivers that cause most of the damage not the design of the g/box.
ideal system for a dog box though -as you have to feel the engagment anyway to get smooothest changes --just be careful if fitting to a std synchro box

Understand totally where you are coming from on this!

Seen a fair few people wreck boxes trying to do lightening quick changes and jamming it in on standard linkages, these must magnify the issue just like rose jointed or solid linkages! Maybe a little bit worse as there is probably a bit more leverage, but im sure if your not heavy handed with your changes you should be ok!

28th January 2011, 16:45

Mark not criticising just thought id point it out, on a picture of the kit fitted by Colin the support in the bay goes over the mount not under?!? not sure which is right thought id point it out though!

28th January 2011, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

I am not knocking the kit,not in any way --looks very good ,but those you who are not the smoothest of drivers could find the the synchro,s will not last long ,with no rubber or I say again i am not knocking the conversion ,but experience has shown me that over enthusistic lightning gear shifts with no cushioning in the linkage ends up with broken synchro rings --buy it ,but just remember that you cannot expect any syncho box to like being used lke a sequential one with very short shifts andno electronics to cut the power on gear engagement ,so just remember to lift the throttle on gear changing and be smooth .
the rubber cushions on std linkage allow the synchro to bounce to find its correct engagment ,solid links means it will smash it home even if its not lining up correctly ,causing excessive wear .
the ma gets an unfair bad reputation --its the bad drivers that cause most of the damage not the design of the g/box.
ideal system for a dog box though -as you have to feel the engagment anyway to get smooothest changes --just be careful if fitting to a std synchro box

Quote:

Originally Posted by qrty

Understand totally where you are coming from on this!

Seen a fair few people wreck boxes trying to do lightening quick changes and jamming it in on standard linkages, these must magnify the issue just like rose jointed or solid linkages! Maybe a little bit worse as there is probably a bit more leverage, but im sure if your not heavy handed with your changes you should be ok!

Colin does not offer this as a road setup. Trackday and race. Though nothing is stopping anyone fitting this to a road car. Common sense should always be taken with all quickshifts when combined with Synchro boxes. Never rush a standard gearbox.

28th January 2011, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Colin does not offer this as a road setup. Trackday and race. Though nothing is stopping anyone fitting this to a road car. Common sense should always be taken with all quickshifts when combined with Synchro boxes. Never rush a standard gearbox.

Yer understand that fully, this is why I put it in the trackday section not the transmission section really thought it belonged here!

Not trying to be the next person wanting this to label my car a "Track Car". Although that is its sole purpose, for me I can see this kit being useful as it will improve my driving position (Can move the seat back, lanky legs aha) and also there will be less distance between wheel and stick!

Never wanted to put this thread up as "The Next Mod" or "Track Style Race Shifterzzzz" lol, just some information for the right audience!

28th January 2011, 18:52

Colin Satchel is a genius !

Soooo want one for the 205!

28th January 2011, 18:55

Ive bought mine merely because I found the standard rubber ball setup to be unreliable i.e it fell off. If that happened in a rally again during a stage i wouldnt be happy lol.

28th January 2011, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by qrty

Yer understand that fully, this is why I put it in the trackday section not the transmission section really thought it belonged here!

Not trying to be the next person wanting this to label my car a "Track Car". Although that is its sole purpose, for me I can see this kit being useful as it will improve my driving position (Can move the seat back, lanky legs aha) and also there will be less distance between wheel and stick!

Never wanted to put this thread up as "The Next Mod" or "Track Style Race Shifterzzzz" lol, just some information for the right audience!

and my comments were just to make that clear to the people who wander in here and think its a bit of bling,or something just to be different .
as for std linkages being unrelaible ,my experince is the opposite ,,when building a track car I would just fit a new set of std ones ,about £20-£30 and a normal type alloy housing unit never had a problem-.the only real advantage i can see is that it gets the lever end closer to the steering wheel so quicker to get to it with your hand from the wheel ..
looks alot of work to fit ,but looks well made. i have to say i can see a good purpose for it if someone was to splash out on a squential box though and don,t want to pay silly money for a custom set-up .
If it had been available at the time i fitted my hewland i probably would have used that to start with and not gone to all the expense of air paddle shift + gear tronics ecu etc, at least to start with.
it would be easy to convert to a straight line change lever assembly.

28th January 2011, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackman

Colin Satchel is a genius !

Soooo want one for the 205!

He says he is tempted to re-look at his 205 kit to make it similar. Time will tell!

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

and my comments were just to make that clear to the people who wander in here and think its a bit of bling,or something just to be different .
as for std linkages being unrelaible ,my experince is the opposite ,,when building a track car I would just fit a new set of std ones ,about £20-£30 and a normal type alloy housing unit never had a problem-.the only real advantage i can see is that it gets the lever end closer to the steering wheel so quicker to get to it with your hand from the wheel ..
looks alot of work to fit ,but looks well made. i have to say i can see a good purpose for it if someone was to splash out on a squential box though and don,t want to pay silly money for a custom set-up .
If it had been available at the time i fitted my hewland i probably would have used that to start with and not gone to all the expense of air paddle shift + gear tronics ecu etc, at least to start with.
it would be easy to convert to a straight line change lever assembly.

For the sequential you would barely need more than two metal pipes and some rose joints so you would only need a couple of bits

My setup is not much more than that. Your kit sounds like fun though! I take it the ecu controls the timing of the changes for each gear? I just have a switch on a spring loaded lever so as I pull back the engine is cut, but when I let go it springs back into its off position. I think I can then use the engine ECU to stay cut as long as the switch is activated though i've not got that far with the build..

28th January 2011, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

and my comments were just to make that clear to the people who wander in here and think its a bit of bling,or something just to be different .
as for std linkages being unrelaible ,my experince is the opposite ,,when building a track car I would just fit a new set of std ones ,about £20-£30 and a normal type alloy housing unit never had a problem-.the only real advantage i can see is that it gets the lever end closer to the steering wheel so quicker to get to it with your hand from the wheel ..
looks alot of work to fit ,but looks well made. i have to say i can see a good purpose for it if someone was to splash out on a squential box though and don,t want to pay silly money for a custom set-up .
If it had been available at the time i fitted my hewland i probably would have used that to start with and not gone to all the expense of air paddle shift + gear tronics ecu etc, at least to start with.
it would be easy to convert to a straight line change lever assembly.

I totally agree with you on the bling idea, I was trying to say thats not why I want one! Its hard to get the tone of something written on the internet right, dont think it came across as it was intended!

29th January 2011, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

He says he is tempted to re-look at his 205 kit to make it similar. Time will tell!

For the sequential you would barely need more than two metal pipes and some rose joints so you would only need a couple of bits

My setup is not much more than that. Your kit sounds like fun though! I take it the ecu controls the timing of the changes for each gear? I just have a switch on a spring loaded lever so as I pull back the engine is cut, but when I let go it springs back into its off position. I think I can then use the engine ECU to stay cut as long as the switch is activated though i've not got that far with the build..

yes a basic switch on ecu can cut ,but the geartonics has micro swithc that then hands it over to the ecu and allows you to decide how long in mi;;i secs the engine cut is active for .
If you have sticky tyres and big power then you will wind up the drivshafts so depending how heavy the wheels +drive shaft line is and how flexible thighs are will decide how long it takes for the transmission to unwind ,so having this adjsutableyou to get the perfect shfit with minmal power cut --sI,vesimplfies it a bit ,then eith ecu control you can block g.changes that are outside the correctrpm range ,which si set by knowing ratios + rpm limts both upper = lower --lots of clever bits to set -up and the result is an F1 gear change and no chance of over speeding engine on downshfit either --it jsut won,t let you do it unless you press the clutch ==and then there is the fully auot mode where you can set it to change up and down on its own relative to engine + road speed --its the best you can buy ,adn will keep your expensive g/box in one piece for a long time ,even if you get the red mist ,it won,t let you do silly things.
I canot pull the paddle shift quicker than it can can change gear ,thats how quick it is and you have to love the auto throttle blipping on down changes,even if its just for the posing factor ,
approach a roundabout at full tilt ,bnag on the brkes and hear it changing down perfectly on its own and the same as you exit up the way ,

29th January 2011, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

He says he is tempted to re-look at his 205 kit to make it similar. Time will tell!

I can't remember weather he said he may not be able to do mine because of the TU set out and exhaust manifold! I may be wrong though!

29th January 2011, 23:20

I was looking at that powershift stand at autosport. tbh i think it is a bit overrated. i mean it's clever, don't get me wrong, but the function that if you change down 2 gears but the rpm is too high so it wont let you, then when you brake and the rpm drop low enough it will change down those 2 gears. I think, well i know, this irritate a lot of drivers. as the system is changing when IT wants rather than when YOU want.

30th January 2011, 07:55

We've actually found gearbox damage to be reduced with Colin's linkage kits (bear in mind they've been in use for about ten years already, before he worked out this easier to fit kit). He's designed and developed it very carefully to ensure the gate movement would not increase the stress on the selectors and synchros; the increased feel helps markedly to improve the selection precision. I don't think it's something you can appreciate until you've tried it and the wide eyed enthusiasm of the people who've fitted them so far hopefully indicates what a dramatic difference it makes.

Aggressive drivers will break MA boxes whatever linkage is used, but more feel certainly helps sympathetic drivers to use the box more judiciously. How and when you feed the clutch/power in, inflicts the most damage in my experience.

30th January 2011, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark1311

yep i love my, had myn about 3weeks now, was 1st person on here with it i think ....

I know of someone on here who had it before you.

31st January 2011, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamskiTNR

I was looking at that powershift stand at autosport. tbh i think it is a bit overrated. i mean it's clever, don't get me wrong, but the function that if you change down 2 gears but the rpm is too high so it wont let you, then when you brake and the rpm drop low enough it will change down those 2 gears. I think, well i know, this irritate a lot of drivers. as the system is changing when IT wants rather than when YOU want.

with gear tronics YOU set up what you want ,if you don,t want it fully auto,then don,t use that mode.
then you just hit the paddles and change down or up as many or as few as you like ,it still blips throttle on downchange+ engine cut to unload the the dogs and won,t allow selection with no clutch pressed ,unless it is within the rpm band you have set .
so no over-revving of engine or sudden lock up of wheels ever
you can use the clutch if you want and bang it down 5 gears as quick as it takes to say it -but when would you want to go down that many at once not very often ,so you only use the clutch really for starts .
it will take as much setting up as the engine ecu to get it perfect.
you don,t have to have paddle shift it can work with a gear lever as well ,justdifferent set-up

31st January 2011, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy309

We've actually found gearbox damage to be reduced with Colin's linkage kits (bear in mind they've been in use for about ten years already, before he worked out this easier to fit kit). He's designed and developed it very carefully to ensure the gate movement would not increase the stress on the selectors and synchros; the increased feel helps markedly to improve the selection precision. I don't think it's something you can appreciate until you've tried it and the wide eyed enthusiasm of the people who've fitted them so far hopefully indicates what a dramatic difference it makes.

Aggressive drivers will break MA boxes whatever linkage is used, but more feel certainly helps sympathetic drivers to use the box more judiciously. How and when you feed the clutch/power in, inflicts the most damage in my experience.

no.no ,as i said I ,m only pointing out that fitting this does not suddenly turn it into a squential box and being a good driver is still a must to keep the box in one piece.
my feeling is having a little rubber,providing its not oil sodden+ old age degraded in it somewhere allows for the "off days/ red mist" of the driver

1st February 2011, 07:25

Nobody had suggested this kit would turn in into a sequential box and I think it's pretty common sense that you need to treat gearboxes with sympathy to make them last. The rubber bushes will not protect the box from ham fisted use and I think if you'd actually used the kit, you'd perhaps appreciate what a difference it makes and how much easier it is to FEEL the changes and selector/synchro action.

Feel free to develop your own kit with rubber bushes and see how much better it works!

1st February 2011, 09:14

since when did the majority of forum users have much common sense,you only have to see how they complain tha the ma is a choclate g/box ,that they have no idea on hwo to drive cars

1st February 2011, 09:22

I want one! that is all

3rd February 2011, 15:31

Just had a parcel that looks like a hedge trimmer! I wonder what it could be!

6th July 2011, 18:52

so does this kit make it a forward upshift and a backwards downshift throughout the box with aid of the clutch, or does it keep the standerd gear pattern?

6th July 2011, 19:05

standard pattern

6th July 2011, 20:13

saw one the other day, was with a BE box but look the part, and made the shift feel better,

and it some close the steering wheel so i think ill be investing in one soon

9th July 2011, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

since when did the majority of forum users have much common sense

great way to get more customers

10th July 2011, 08:50

but he is right to some extent regarding gearboxes. Most people do not understand how a sychromesh gearbox should be used and therefore internals are abused. I remember how at 18 I didnt really give a shit, and just wanted to change gear as fast as I possibly could.

10th July 2011, 13:45

Instead of all just agreeing that people can't drive isn't it generally more helpful to say what they actually do wrong

10th July 2011, 16:48

friend of mine has this fitted to his car, used it for two weeks and he has already complained with gearbox whine. Buy this at your own risk, great looking bit of kit, and it probably does save a tenth of a second changing gear, i guess when your "competing" on a public track day you need every tenth you can get....pffttt.

10th July 2011, 16:52

Also to remember though this is sold aim at track time not for use on the road every day.

10th July 2011, 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tufty

friend of mine has this fitted to his car, used it for two weeks and he has already complained with gearbox whine. Buy this at your own risk, great looking bit of kit, and it probably does save a tenth of a second changing gear, i guess when your "competing" on a public track day you need every tenth you can get....pffttt.

Gearbox whine would hint at diff bearings? Or some sort of bearing whine as opposed to synchro damage from changing gear using this shifter setup?

I think it's a great bit of kit but doesn't protect the gearbox synchros from 'aggressive' driving.

10th July 2011, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Gearbox whine would hint at diff bearings? Or some sort of bearing whine as opposed to synchro damage from changing gear using this shifter setup?

I think it's a great bit of kit but doesn't protect the gearbox synchros from 'aggressive' driving.

yh, could be that mate, just its getting harder and harder for him to select gear which makes me think its the rings making to heavy (fast) contact whilst selecting.

It is a decent bit of kit and is purely for race as stated, so i suppose with race parts comes wear and tare a bit more sooner than other bits.

2nd August 2011, 16:08

I had (to my knowledge) the first BE kit from Sandy. It transforms the selection process completely. However, it IS less forgiving on the synchro's I think than the standard (even "quickshift) setups. I've just come back from the 'ring last month with a buggered 3rd gear synchro - almost positive this damage was down to being way down on power and me smashing it into every gear aggressively. I think the standard linkage may have been more forgiving, but I'd still rather have this. I just need to learn to be more sympathetic and let the car/boost do the work.

End result? My fault because of wank driving. Damage emphasized by uprated components being less forgiving.

2nd August 2011, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

I had (to my knowledge) the first BE kit from Sandy.

I think Stu (slammed106) had the first one outside of race cars, since my understanding is, that it was after talking to him that they became commercial.

2nd August 2011, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

I think Stu (slammed106) had the first one outside of race cars, since my understanding is, that it was after talking to him that they became commercial.

does he not have a TU gearbox

The trick with any quickshift or replacement gearlever is not to rush the gearchange. You can slam cars into gear and significantly shorten the lifespan of the mechanisms.

We have just received another batch of these
Both the Satchshift for BE gearbox conversions;
and the Satchshift for standard TU gearbox

Next working day delivery!

2nd August 2011, 16:52

Maybe.

I kinda missed the 'BE' part, lol.

2nd August 2011, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by titchster

I think Stu (slammed106) had the first one outside of race cars, since my understanding is, that it was after talking to him that they became commercial.

Ah really? I thought we might be the first as we had to get Colin to modify one of the linkages to fit - I seem to remember he said at the time it was the first time he'd sold one - perhaps the first "commercial" kit!

Either way, the kit is outstanding - it's my poor driving that's done the damage.

2nd August 2011, 17:02

ah that explains it

Just looking back over my PM's on RR - seems we did have the first BE one after all! Testimony to Colin is that it only needed a tiny bit of modification to get right (an extension to the bent arm was required).

As for my driving - yeah, I kinda know that now

lol Need to learn some mechanical sympathy for sure. In my defence, I was trying to wring every last ounce of performance out of the weedy 150bhp or so that we had on the day! I suspect with 3 times that power the next time we're there, I wont be in such a rush to change gears

2nd August 2011, 19:25

Dave Kift had the first 106 Satchshift.. and when he converted to BE again he was the first... but Colin/Sandy help him with the racecar so its not technically a "public" version..

i was pestering Colin for over a year before he cracked and gave me some info/pics to make my own..

mine is also along the original design where both rods go through the bulkhead,theres NOTHING in the tunnel, it was tweaked before he started doing kits..

2nd August 2011, 19:41

Why did it get changed to the current setup any idea? Need to pester you about something else actually - I'll pm you this evening.

2nd August 2011, 19:47

not sure tbh... "ease of fitment" most likely

3rd August 2011, 05:41

Yes, one hole to cut rather than two and it made the pivot assembly a bit neater.

Don't fool yourself into thinking the standard linkage protects the gearbox from aggressive use, it doesn't! Our competition customers have absolutely reduced their gearbox failures using these improved linkages. What I do think might happen in some cases however, is the greater feel of this kit, encourages aggressive use.

3rd August 2011, 13:55

I haven't drove much driving with mine but when I tested it up the road the other day it felt amazing! I understand how people could get heavy handed with it being big and chunky but to me it feels so light and it just falls into the right gear...no need to slam it!

10th August 2011, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy309

Yes, one hole to cut rather than two and it made the pivot assembly a bit neater.

Don't fool yourself into thinking the standard linkage protects the gearbox from aggressive use, it doesn't! Our competition customers have absolutely reduced their gearbox failures using these improved linkages. What I do think might happen in some cases however, is the greater feel of this kit, encourages aggressive use.

which is why i would urge people to keep some rubber cushioning in the linkage somewhere--

10th August 2011, 20:00

Im looking forward to mine when i get the engine and satchshift back!

I have had a play with a couple in other cars and it feels awesome!!