Important! : VTS Head Gasket - Multi-Layered?

1. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

   #1 7th May 2011, 17:26

   Hi folks!
   
   Looking for some performance upgrade on the cylinder head ports.
   
   Just bought the Head Gasket from www.106parts.com (the only place that ship to Brazil).
   
   The part is thick, with 4 or 5 layers.
   
   They state that this is the OEM one but I'm afraid it will bring down my comprehension rate.
   
   Any clues?
   
   Is the OEM one this multi-layered?
   
   Thanks,
   
   Ogro
2. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

   #2 7th May 2011, 17:28

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by ogro.uff Hi folks! Looking for some performance upgrade on the cylinder head ports. Just bought the Head Gasket from www.106parts.com (the only place that ship to Brazil). The part is thick, with 4 or 5 layers. Here it is: http://www.106parts.com/s2/page1.php...4=53&part=2616 They state that this is the OEM one but I'm afraid it will bring down my comprehension rate. Any clues? Is the OEM one this multi-layered? Thanks, Ogro

   Forgot the link!
3. user_25706 Established Member Joined: Jul 2008 Taunton, Somerset Posts: 1182 Millenium Falcon

   #3 7th May 2011, 17:42

   As long as it's 1.2mm thick then the compression ratio will stay the same. I suggest measuring it when it arrives if you're worried about it.
   
   If you have to get the head skimmed and use the standard 1.2mm gasket, then the compression ratio will marginally increase but at the slight risk of pinking/detonation (which isn't very likely unless you have loads skimmed off imo, but there is always the risk).
4. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

   #4 7th May 2011, 18:39

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by -Dan- As long as it's 1.2mm thick then the compression ratio will stay the same. I suggest measuring it when it arrives if you're worried about it. If you have to get the head skimmed and use the standard 1.2mm gasket, then the compression ratio will marginally increase but at the slight risk of pinking/detonation (which isn't very likely unless you have loads skimmed off imo, but there is always the risk).

   
   Just measured the gasket:
   
   1.9mm thick.
   
   4 layers: 2 sealing ones + 2 in the middle (one of them very thick).
   
   will drop just a mill off the head (just to clean it) and assemble with this OEM gasket.
   
   When it comes to tightening it, the thickness must be reduced to the OEM clearance between valves and pistons.
   
   What do you think, Dan?
5. Gareth_R Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Basildon, Essex Posts: 1042 Citroen AX VTS

   #5 7th May 2011, 18:47

   1mm off the head? That's loads
6. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

   #6 7th May 2011, 19:02

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Gareth_R 1mm off the head? That's loads

   meant 0.1mm!
   
   my bad!
7. user_25706 Established Member Joined: Jul 2008 Taunton, Somerset Posts: 1182 Millenium Falcon

   #7 7th May 2011, 21:56

   Yeah sorry I forgot 1.2mm was the compressed thickness, I can't remember the non-compressed thickness off the top of my head, but 1.9 sounds about right.
   
   Sounds good mate, although I'd check to see if there is pitting or warping on the head before you send it off, as you could be just throwing money away.
8. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

   #8 8th May 2011, 11:16

   we can also ship worldwide --payment is by pay-pal or bank transfer .
   I can supply you gaskets in 0.6 .1.5,1.7,1.7 mm
   
   buid your engine with no gasket --put clay on top of piston --time up cams -turn engine over by hand --remove head -measure thickness of clay --then you will know correct size of gasket or how much more you can take off .
   If you are looking for max compression then you need to change std valves to flat faced units --this will drop ccv by 2cc --to start with
   you will never get the comp ratio the piston makers tell you without doing this as some piston makers give the comp ratio of piston with no gasket fitted --
   you can check by measuring the ccv yourself and also the volume in the piston
9. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

   #9 8th May 2011, 11:29

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by axsaxoman we can also ship worldwide --payment is by pay-pal or bank transfer . I can supply you gaskets in 0.6 .1.5,1.7,1.7 mm buid your engine with no gasket --put clay on top of piston --time up cams -turn engine over by hand --remove head -measure thickness of clay --then you will know correct size of gasket or how much more you can take off . If you are looking for max compression then you need to change std valves to flat faced units --this will drop ccv by 2cc --to start with you will never get the comp ratio the piston makers tell you without doing this as some piston makers give the comp ratio of piston with no gasket fitted -- you can check by measuring the ccv yourself and also the volume in the piston

   Thanks a lot for the support.
   
   So this OEM gasket I bought is really thick!
   
   Regards,
   
   Rafa
10. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #10 8th May 2011, 11:35

    yep the thickest made --std size for j4 engine is 1.5mm
    for jp4 engine std is 0.6mm
    1.7+1.9 are oversizes
    
    if you do the dry build I was speaking of and using std cams --you could usually --if head is std thickness -fit the 0.6mm gasket
    this is why i say "dry build" with clay and check how much you can take off
11. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

    #11 8th May 2011, 20:41

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by axsaxoman yep the thickest made --std size for j4 engine is 1.5mm for jp4 engine std is 0.6mm 1.7+1.9 are oversizes if you do the dry build I was speaking of and using std cams --you could usually --if head is std thickness -fit the 0.6mm gasket this is why i say "dry build" with clay and check how much you can take off

    Look at what citroen's Service page shows for head gaskets:
    
    CODE DESCRIPTION
    
    0209 Z0 CN
    0209 W3 REPAIR + 0,20
    0209 Z1 REPAIR + 0,40
    
    I wonder what code is the one I bought... there ain't no PN on it!
    
    The only things written on it are:
    
    S4 561 719 80/B 42RNZ08
    
    My problem is that I live in Brazil and Saxo have not been regularly imported. Mine is the only one, brought to Citroen's CEO private colection by 1998...
    
    Nobody to assist me on the dealers :-(
    
    thank you all for the support
12. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

    #12 8th May 2011, 20:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ogro.uff Look at what citroen's Service page shows for head gaskets: CODE DESCRIPTION 0209 Z0 CN 0209 W3 REPAIR + 0,20 0209 Z1 REPAIR + 0,40 I wonder what code is the one I bought... there ain't no PN on it! The only things written on it are: S4 561 719 80/B 42RNZ08 My problem is that I live in Brazil and Saxo have not been regularly imported. Mine is the only one, brought to Citroen's CEO private colection by 1998... Nobody to assist me on the dealers :-( thank you all for the support

    This goes along with what AXSAXOMAN stated...
    
    I'd like to have my car running the standard compresion rate!
    
    Do I need to machine the head 0,4mm to keep the OEM rate?
13. ogro.uff L-plater Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 56

    #13 9th May 2011, 01:29

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ogro.uff This goes along with what AXSAXOMAN stated... I'd like to have my car running the standard compresion rate! Do I need to machine the head 0,4mm to keep the OEM rate?

    Haynes says head should measure 135.00 +/- 0.1mm for VTS.
    
    with the extreme different gaskets (1,5mm and 1,9mm) we have:
    
    minimal condition of material - 134.9mm + 1.5mm = 136.4mm
    maximum condition of material - 135.1mm + 1.9mm = 137.00mm
    
    My question:
    
    136.4mm is the final number to reach 10,8:1 rate? Is this correct?
    
    best regards,
    
    Ogro
14. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #14 9th May 2011, 09:05

    yes you would need to remove more metal from head ,but if using std cams + 1.9mm gasket you can remove alot more with no valve clash problems if you wish