Throttle bodies, turbo or supercharged

10th May 2011, 15:12

I've dne a 16v conversion n nw I'm thinking more power but I don't know how much any of these will cost and wat gains and most reliable, so if people could help me out with wat I'd exactly have to do and power gains and rough prices I'd be very greatfull
Cheers

10th May 2011, 15:15

Turbo and Charger are both around £4,000 if you do it properly, can be more it all depends how you do it.

Or you can just bolt them on without forged internals and it can be a little as £500-£600.

10th May 2011, 15:15

have a look at some progress threads of people who have bodies turbos and superchargers all been covered loads of time on here

10th May 2011, 15:26

easiest way to do it is you tell us how much money you have/want to spend and ill tell you what you can do and roughly how much power to expect.

10th May 2011, 15:27

throttle bodies ftw! sounds mental and it cam give you some wiked n/a power when set up properly

i did some reaserch into itb's as im thinking about doing it myself when money isnt tight.

if you want to run on standard internals:

cams
injectors
itb's (durrrr 0.o)
& a remap

you could see about 170ish bhp

if you want to go any higher then your looking at forging the engine & diffs ect.

have a look around as plenty of people have done it

I personally wanna hit 180-190bhp as eventually I wanna start getting into track days so im gonna slowly build up an engine for my S next year to the spec that I want

10th May 2011, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunno

throttle bodies ftw! sounds mental and it cam give you some wiked n/a power when set up properly

its all good sounding mental but if your not traveling anywhere its no good is it?

10th May 2011, 15:34

stickens itl cost at least a grand to make any sort of reasonable turbo kit up, with some decent management, an half decent manifold,but turbos are cheap to source in normal sizes. stock internals will run low boost but if you contemplate anything over say 8psi its worth considering lowering the compression, decon plate, 2 headgaskets, forgies, modified crowns to stock pistons are all options, ive seen a couple of cars on the strip running high boost with fairly stock motors doing some quick passes.
bodies really in my opinion are too expensive, especially as youd need cams and management still too get some appreciable gains.
also since the jp4 motors are soo cheap to source with no miles on, it makes the decon plate option attractive, you can have a shed full of spare, built motors for the price of some decent forgies and rods!

10th May 2011, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

its all good sounding mental but if your not traveling anywhere its no good is it?

meh im confused? why would you not travel anywhere

10th May 2011, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunno

meh im confused? why would you not travel anywhere

right,ill get to the point then

from my EXPERIENCE unless spending over 5k on a n/a engine its pointless. they are berely any quicker than a normal cam'd engine. yes they are quicker but you wouldnt shout about it.

if you have a spec like alexb's car then yes it will be a fair bit quicker than a standard car. but look how much that engine cost to build.

imo, the noise alone isnt worth the 2-2.5k it costs to ITB a car.

if spending 5k plus why not make the car genuinly rapid and fit a rotrex or turbocharger.

10th May 2011, 15:45

Because for the amount you spend on cams and itb's, you don't actually get that much power IMO plus where do you go from there? High comps and other bits you'll still be at 180-190 and where then?

At least if you do a budget turbo build, can be done for the same as TB's and you have somewhere to go i.e go forged and bang up the boost. Plus turbo is a different animal to an n/a car. You can pick up turbo kits on here sometimes, usually ok spec and not horrendous cost

10th May 2011, 15:45

Too late lol

10th May 2011, 17:45

I can back danny up here! been and done the N/A scene, the noise was out of this world, but you do lose the daily drive feeling, the power/money is just not there for it!

Although, there is a speed difference with a stripped out sax, my engine had 170bhp (cam timings not 100%) that was fun! but you can spend your money better else where.
If i were to do another project it would be boost

10th May 2011, 17:51

Thnks everyone, I'm thinking no more than 1200, and from what has been said im thinkin towards turbocharged, I'm not quite sure wat u exactly mean Tilly, are you sayin that if I run a turbo at half bar standard internals are a yes but if I want more than say 180bhp I'm goin To hve to upgrade everything? If thas so maybe turbo kit on standard internals runnin 0.5 bar then, then maybe buy another block and gearbox and build that to full spec over a period of time? Is this an option sorry I'm I sound stupid dnt reli understand turbos as yet, txt me if it's easier for you Tilly

10th May 2011, 17:53

.. or nitrous? Temporary power yes, but fun none the less!

10th May 2011, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrxstickens

Thnks everyone, I'm thinking no more than 1200, and from what has been said im thinkin towards turbocharged, I'm not quite sure wat u exactly mean Tilly, are you sayin that if I run a turbo at half bar standard internals are a yes but if I want more than say 180bhp I'm goin To hve to upgrade everything? If thas so maybe turbo kit on standard internals runnin 0.5 bar then, then maybe buy another block and gearbox and build that to full spec over a period of time? Is this an option sorry I'm I sound stupid dnt reli understand turbos as yet, txt me if it's easier for you Tilly

i think you would be hard pushed to turbo your car for 1200... double it then you could have a budget conversion.
dont get me wrong it can be done. but it certainly wouldnt be a "pretty" instilation.

10th May 2011, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tillygti6

stickens itl cost at least a grand to make any sort of reasonable turbo kit up, with some decent management, an half decent manifold,but turbos are cheap to source in normal sizes. stock internals will run low boost but if you contemplate anything over say 8psi its worth considering lowering the compression, decon plate, 2 headgaskets, forgies, modified crowns to stock pistons are all options, ive seen a couple of cars on the strip running high boost with fairly stock motors doing some quick passes.
bodies really in my opinion are too expensive, especially as youd need cams and management still too get some appreciable gains.
also since the jp4 motors are soo cheap to source with no miles on, it makes the decon plate option attractive, you can have a shed full of spare, built motors for the price of some decent forgies and rods!

last thing you'd want to do to stock pistons on a boosted car

10th May 2011, 18:21

1200 wud be the budget ATM to get it turbo on standard internals buh if buyin another block the budget wudnt be a problem as it can be done over time so I'd build it to the best standard possible that I am willing to spend wantin reli a reliable turbo engine wen runnin higher boost for say less than spending 2000 after turbo on standard internals if you get wat I mean

10th May 2011, 18:23

all my bits for the turbo convertion work out to around a grand.
predator500
exh mani, can be made or sourced from europe for 200 quid if not less if your good on ebay!
garret t2 t 25 gt17 can all be found in good used condition for 150 if you look in the right places........
downpipes are hardly rocket science for someone handy, with a welder.
my intercooler came fron a scrappy off an astra 20 quids.
unless your chasing 250+ you dont need all the dp stuff, its soooo nice but overkill for most installs.
ive brought a few jp4 motors all removed from silly low mile motors for dirt cheap. will probaly just run decon plates. the only problem ive got is the tiny engine bay.
so a neat efficient setup is perfectly do-able if your prepared to put some effort in and not pay someone to do it for you.
blackie your right with tu pistons but its acceptable on other motors.

so all the turbo bits came in cheaper than my gearbox...........

danny.. how much has your setup cost? probbly not much going by the bits you made yourself? exclude engine cost as were talkin low boost

10th May 2011, 18:26

cheap. reliable . power

pick two from the list.

10th May 2011, 18:32

tbh if it was me for that budget everyone knows what I'd do. As danny says can do a turbo for that with ecu but it won't be a looker plus you will have to plan everything out to the penny if you want it in budget

10th May 2011, 18:41

Go turbo imo.

i would of thought dannys setup would of cost quite alot, as its very neat and high spec. including him being very skilled in making the parts he has to save extra cash which you may need to spend.

from my experience building a budget turbo build. your looking over 1200. thats maybe half the parts. i worked mine out how much i have spent on the turbo kit i have on my progress thread, and thats almost 2grand so far, including some VERY cheap and rare bargains. it would of cost more using a pred as my management, but i skimped out and now im paying the price for it as the management i have chose is a ball ache imo to setup.

my advice, dont skimp out, look for bargains, hunt for the best quality for money and research everything to a T. but expect to pay double what price your thinking of to get it actually road worthy, with reliability, and decent power

10th May 2011, 18:41

So really what your sayin is for a reliable low boost turbo set up will cost be about a grand if I search hard for the right bits at the right prices, only thing is I've never delt with a turbos before I'd like to think I'm quite clued up on these engine buh not to sure wen it cmes to puttin a turbo on 1 as I've never actually looked at a 16v turbo in person b4

10th May 2011, 18:45

I'm getin confused nw as so many mixed opinions on turbo set up :s not to sure, realy I need a list of wat I need exactly n price it all up myself maybe then I can see the price for myself

10th May 2011, 18:46

i have a picture list on my progress thread, actually i think i have a list of parts.

take a look.

10th May 2011, 18:53

Turbo gets boring.

But so does NA i imagine after a while.

10th May 2011, 19:04

Turbo can be done on a budget, and can look good with some elbow grease an bargain hunting

10th May 2011, 19:18

its hard to say how much mine has cost. being in the trade has certainly helped. if i had to get a company to do what ive done then id say at least 4k for my setup.
plus, i have bought some parts that arent really what i want but it will "do" for now. but later on i wil upgrade these components and i knew that from the start..

its not the big things that cost..
for example, my boost pipes were bought, cut and welded so i only need to use a silicone pipe to join the pipe to the inlet/intercooler/turbo where as the average diy'er will just buy bends and use silicone to connect them together so they will end up with several "breaks" in the hardpipe.
also, with fittings for turbo feed and drain/oil cooler.. ive used all -10an fittings rather than push on with jubilee clip etc.

10th May 2011, 19:26

as danny sais it normally the smaller parts that mount up, if going proper budget you could do the kit for under £500 pretty easy, but it would look not the best, then amangeent on top, id still wanna go standalone on budget asits going to get thebest possible health from your set up regardless of how much it cost,

but saying that the results from mf2 are very good also

10th May 2011, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

right,ill get to the point then

from my EXPERIENCE unless spending over 5k on a n/a engine its pointless. they are berely any quicker than a normal cam'd engine. yes they are quicker but you wouldnt shout about it.

if you have a spec like alexb's car then yes it will be a fair bit quicker than a standard car. but look how much that engine cost to build.

imo, the noise alone isnt worth the 2-2.5k it costs to ITB a car.

if spending 5k plus why not make the car genuinly rapid and fit a rotrex or turbocharger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

Because for the amount you spend on cams and itb's, you don't actually get that much power IMO plus where do you go from there? High comps and other bits you'll still be at 180-190 and where then?

At least if you do a budget turbo build, can be done for the same as TB's and you have somewhere to go i.e go forged and bang up the boost. Plus turbo is a different animal to an n/a car. You can pick up turbo kits on here sometimes, usually ok spec and not horrendous cost

yeah i see what both of you are saying, i think its just me being a bit nieve.
boost is definately the way forward is you want power as it can be done without needing a lot of money (on a low boost set up).

i keep switching between what i think would be better for my s, i love itb's but a turbo would be so awesome! even on a low budget, low boost build!

10th May 2011, 19:31

depends what you want. dont get me wrong if you want an exciting car then throttle bodies are a great option. its just from what ive seen itb'd cars arent massively fast. if you can live with that then throttle bodies are a good option. im building my car to be as quick as poss. for the money i have to spend then turbocharging is a no brainer.

10th May 2011, 19:36

i think for the gains over money ITB'S are overrated on this site

10th May 2011, 19:40

I think it could work both ways, if you did go the throttle bodied route, you get awesome noise, 50-80hp gain, A bragging right in saying the power output from an n/a 1.6 engine,

But as danny has said, boosted madness with real power and torque would be a lot quicker, and madness.

10th May 2011, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxostuart

i think for the gains over money ITB'S are overrated on this site

Yeah if i wanted 170 bhp i would pay 1500 for a clio 172 then sell the current vts/gti for the same price, 170 bhp for free, everyone's a winner.

10th May 2011, 19:41

who said anything about push on pipes and jubilees? im not in the trade but just as well be,so goodridge fittings are feasable. its all down to how handy you are with the welder and thinking things through.

10th May 2011, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

depends what you want. dont get me wrong if you want an exciting car then throttle bodies are a great option. its just from what ive seen itb'd cars arent massively fast. if you can live with that then throttle bodies are a good option. im building my car to be as quick as poss. for the money i have to spend then turbocharging is a no brainer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krys_23

I think it could work both ways, if you did go the throttle bodied route, you get awesome noise, 50-80hp gain, A bragging right in saying the power output from an n/a 1.6 engine,

But as danny has said, boosted madness with real power and torque would be a lot quicker, and madness.

your slowly converting me

im just thinking bang for buck it maybe the best way to go...wouldnt be till next year but means i could spend money elseware on the car.

boost...mmm

10th May 2011, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krys_23

Yeah if i wanted 170 bhp i would pay 1500 for a clio 172 then sell the current vts/gti for the same price, 170 bhp for free, everyone's a winner.

that would make a lot of sense haha
apart from the fact i dont like the look of the clio's

10th May 2011, 19:52

I'd rather a clio than buy an engine for £3500 in the for sale section.

10th May 2011, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tillygti6

who said anything about push on pipes and jubilees? im not in the trade but just as well be,so goodridge fittings are feasable. its all down to how handy you are with the welder and thinking things through.

if you bought enough goodridge fitings and braided hose to do everyhting you need then that would be around £250 thats a lot of money out of the budget for a budget build.

10th May 2011, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krys_23

I'd rather a clio than buy an engine for £3500 in the for sale section.

thats fair enough, its the perfect spec for what i want but i think that £3500 would go towards another car

10th May 2011, 20:10

Yeah all i was trying to say pal is, 170 horse, clio 172, £1500.
190 horse saxo, itb'd engine £3500 + Price of fitting + Car

Boosted option would probably be my route, i'll do it someday when i decide to either sell the rallye or just go mad with it when i get the funds.

10th May 2011, 20:28

just to let the original poster know.

its piece of piss fitting a set of throttle bodies etc but "building" a turbocharged car is much more hard work. so dont think for one minute it will all just bolt together like most people are "going down the turbo route" think.

10th May 2011, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krys_23

Yeah all i was trying to say pal is, 170 horse, clio 172, £1500.
190 horse saxo, itb'd engine £3500 + Price of fitting + Car

Boosted option would probably be my route, i'll do it someday when i decide to either sell the rallye or just go mad with it when i get the funds.

what your saying defo makes sense.
i wanna get more power out of my vts just because i quite like the car and im not looking to sell it up any time soon.

butttt in saying that i also wanna save for something with a few more horses for the not so distant future (evo ect ect)

10th May 2011, 22:52

the budget is likely to be very different for each and every one of us. depends who and what we know. i could have fabricated a better manifold myself than the one i brought, but i dont get the time nowdays! like dannys homespun beast. its not got a 500quid pricetag but will be perfectly adequate for the job. as for the braided line thing. again its a case of shopping wisely and finding the right aquaintances.
how many people 10 years ago would have been able too do a similar build? not many,it was all scratch built as the kits that are readily avalable didnt exist. and who cares what an install looks like as long as its functional and reliable for the power you want?

10th May 2011, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tillygti6

the budget is likely to be very different for each and every one of us. depends who and what we know. i could have fabricated a better manifold myself than the one i brought, but i dont get the time nowdays! like dannys homespun beast. its not got a 500quid pricetag but will be perfectly adequate for the job. as for the braided line thing. again its a case of shopping wisely and finding the right aquaintances.
how many people 10 years ago would have been able too do a similar build? not many,it was all scratch built as the kits that are readily avalable didnt exist. and who cares what an install looks like as long as its functional and reliable for the power you want?

i agree.

the best way you will find out how much it will cost, how hard it is to do, and what power/reliabilty you have is to tackle it yourself.

19th May 2011, 21:56

Turbo!

19th May 2011, 21:58

massive respect for dannys car/P-ride is wanted

19th May 2011, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwain

Turbo!

ive seen your progress thread on 106 owners. cant comment as im not a member. but you are right. turbo is pure WIN!!!

19th May 2011, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

ive seen your progress thread on 106 owners. cant comment as im not a member. but you are right. turbo is pure WIN!!!

Are you not? Yeah defo go turbo lol! I'm trying to get as many posts up on here so I can look to see if there's any forged stuff!

19th May 2011, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwain

Are you not? Yeah defo go turbo lol! I'm trying to get as many posts up on here so I can look to see if there's any forged stuff!

still waiting on reply to pm mate, will let you know ASAP

as for sale section i would bother mate, all that goes on here goes on there, but more goes on there tbh, sax-p sale section is poor these days compared to 106oc

19th May 2011, 22:11

is there not a forged vtr engine in the sale section on here

19th May 2011, 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

still waiting on reply to pm mate, will let you know ASAP

as for sale section i would bother mate, all that goes on here goes on there, but more goes on there tbh, sax-p sale section is poor these days compared to 106oc

Righteo mate, done bit of research paypal are holding my money lol.. Making more interest on it the bastards lol!

19th May 2011, 22:17

yeah i did hear that, i think its something to do with the interst they hold it 5 days

19th May 2011, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

yeah i did hear that, i think its something to do with the interst they hold it 5 days

Bloody jyppo's lol! So has that dude paid for the pistons then mate?

20th May 2011, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

ive seen your progress thread on 106 owners. cant comment as im not a member. but you are right. turbo is pure WIN!!!

you've changed. I not likee

20th May 2011, 11:19

you lot seam to be going down the wrong route? I got a ebay superchip,running 250bhp?