Advice on turbo setups :)

12th June 2011, 16:49

Looking at going boost! Any advice on turbo setups etc and prices

Cheers

12th June 2011, 17:01

budget?

12th June 2011, 17:05

http://atspeedracing.co.uk/contactus.html

12th June 2011, 17:07

Dont really have a set budget obviously dont want to spend a ridiculous amount of money but i want a decent set up! Just seeing what my options are

12th June 2011, 17:20

spend £1500 to get a vts roughly 170bhp @ 6-8psi on STD internals..

OR spend £3-4000k to get a vts roughly 230-300bhp @ 15-20psi on low comps..

12th June 2011, 17:22

Can set up a low boost set up for under a grand reliably if you know what you're doing.

Depends how much work you're looking to do yourself?

12th June 2011, 17:26

Well im up for doing work myself as my dads a mechanic so can help out, just obviously cost of parts and mapping etc cheers

12th June 2011, 18:57

Your looking at 1500 for a dp engineering basic kit, intercooler, intercooler piping, ecu/ mf2 all extra. Could get cheaper stuff but dp is quality kit. Cituning kit costs similar and isn't as good. Dunno if you need bigger injectors for low boost

12th June 2011, 22:45

cheers for the advice lads. Sent an email to atspeed hopefully here back from them soon

12th June 2011, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxova

spend £1500 to get a vts roughly 170bhp @ 6-8psi on STD internals..

OR spend £3-4000k to get a vts roughly 230-300bhp @ 15-20psi on low comps..

Those figures need adjusting... by miles.

To the OP - set your budget. Double it. Go from there. And I'm not joking. If you budget £1,500 allow more like £2,500. The budget will dictate how much power you can get, unless budget isn't a problem, then just pick how you want the car to behave - is there a reason you want to go turbo? Supercharged is far kinder to every component, can be just as powerful to all intents and purposes for what's usable on the road.

Are you chasing pub figures or want a road or track weapon?

12th June 2011, 23:35

I can see what you mean about budget looking at your car absolute weapon! I would be happy with around 200 bhp! Dont really have a budget just dont want to be spending ridiculous amounts as obviously have to uprate brakes etc! I want a track weapon that i can drive on the road aswell! Any advice on setups or preferences mate?

12th June 2011, 23:47

200bhp is loads for the road I promise. If the car is stripped (ie light) you'll get it down to about 800kgs, so will have a very respectable power to weight ratio that'll really show up a huge range of "proper" cars

Roads that are really really good fun to drive down with 200bhp become almost undrivable at 300bhp. If its 200bhp or thereabouts, you can do that without going low comps but of course, you'll want more power once you've got the bug

As you've noticed, it's the incidentals that add up - brakes are just one part. go towards the 300bhp mark, and gearbox is another issue that'll see you £1000+ lighter.

A year ago, I'd have recommended the DP engineering setup, but after we had a problem with the exhaust manifold that we reported to DP they didn't fix it - I saw a brand new DP manifold just two weeks ago with the same fault. In our case, the fault was bad enough to rip a manifold stud out the head and caused us a lot of problems. The manifold IS good, but really - for 200bhp, a home made manifold is more than enough, even though it looks ugly

There's plenty of ways to keep the costs down from using a GT3 intercooler to using second hand clio injectors, etc etc. There's lots of ways, especially if you do most of the work yourself. There's a HUGE amount to be saved just in the management route too - you can go MF2 with a basic setup, but even if you go Omex or Emerald, you shouldn't be paying ANY more than £450 for mapping from start to finish.

13th June 2011, 00:11

look at dp engineering stuff, very good

13th June 2011, 00:12

also what ecu do you have? single plug or 3 plug? if its single pug have a look into the predator ecu

13th June 2011, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

look at dp engineering stuff, very good

As I said - I wouldn't trust a new manifold still because of the problems we had, and from what I've seen of the brand new one the other week.

This (and a stud thread removed from the head):

caused by this:

I prefer my manifold flanges to be flat

We had to shave the manifold down after finding out the hard way.

Overall though, the manifold is very good - If I was doing it again though, I'd have the manifold headers made individually rather than as one single plate.

13th June 2011, 00:21

well thats the first bad thing ive heard about DP personally. its still what id go for

13th June 2011, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeM

well thats the first bad thing ive heard about DP personally. its still what id go for

Don't get me wrong - I'm not slating it. But they still haven't fixed the warping of the manifolds that is created when they make it, even though they know about it. Still - if it only affects me, and hasn't affected anyone else then I guess mine was just worse (typical luck).

It's still what I'd go for (obviously - it's what I run!) - there's nothing else off the shelf that comes close in quality.

13th June 2011, 13:01

Cheers for the advice guys! So many options its hard to choose

yeah ill be happy at 200 bhp for a while quick for the road and a laugh on the track! Got a guide of rough prices from atspeed what is the minimum from this list i would need to get 200bhp as could obvious invest in more stuff as time went on

hi

here are some rough price guides (some prices have gone up since then - but gives you rough idea) prices on our website are correct.

Turbo conversion stage 1 (250bhp) parts list

*DP engineering tubular manifold-
GT25R turbo -
DP 2.5" stainless downpipe - *

DP TURBO KIT - £1582

ARP rod bolts - £90

9:1 de-comp package £195

mocal oil cooler kit with remote filter take off £250
custom 2.5" exhaust system £300
491cc injectors £342
bosch 4bar FPR £58
walbro 255 fuel pump £80
Ford coilpack and lead set £90

Ford coilpack bracket £15

Magnetti marelli 3 bar map sensor £70
helix 6 paddle clutch kit £370

Release bearing £20
omex 600 engine management + turbo spec wiring loom £765
turbosmart dump valve £125
budget radiator, header tank and intercooler kit £350

silicone hoses, £200

vacuum hoses, £40

boost pipes (straight lengths ali tube) £20

air filter, £60

coolant hoses, £30

boost controller, £175

cooling fan, £80

wiring consumables, £50

turbo water cooling connections, £25

engine oils, £28

oil filter £5

gearbox oils, £20

antifreeze, £7

battery box, £25

uprated engine mounts, £150

nuts/bolts, £20

head bolts, £50

cambelt kit £90

sub total: £5777

vat: £1010.98

TOTAL: £6787.98

cheers for the help guys

13th June 2011, 13:04

Let me adjust those prices for you a bit - give me a moment and I'll go through it and give you some links. There's plenty of money to be saved.

13th June 2011, 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

Cheers for the advice guys! So many options its hard to choose

yeah ill be happy at 200 bhp for a while quick for the road and a laugh on the track! Got a guide of rough prices from atspeed what is the minimum from this list i would need to get 200bhp as could obvious invest in more stuff as time went on
hi

here are some rough price guides (some prices have gone up since then - but gives you rough idea) prices on our website are correct.

Turbo conversion stage 1 (250bhp) parts list

*DP engineering tubular manifold-
GT25R turbo -
DP 2.5" stainless downpipe - *

DP TURBO KIT - £1582

ARP rod bolts - £90

9:1 de-comp package £195

mocal oil cooler kit with remote filter take off £250
custom 2.5" exhaust system £300
491cc injectors £342
bosch 4bar FPR £58
walbro 255 fuel pump £80
Ford coilpack and lead set £90

Ford coilpack bracket £15

Magnetti marelli 3 bar map sensor £70
helix 6 paddle clutch kit £370

Release bearing £20
omex 600 engine management + turbo spec wiring loom £765
turbosmart dump valve £125
budget radiator, header tank and intercooler kit £350

silicone hoses, £200

vacuum hoses, £40

boost pipes (straight lengths ali tube) £20

air filter, £60

coolant hoses, £30

boost controller, £175

cooling fan, £80

wiring consumables, £50

turbo water cooling connections, £25

engine oils, £28

oil filter £5

gearbox oils, £20

antifreeze, £7

battery box, £25

uprated engine mounts, £150

nuts/bolts, £20

head bolts, £50

cambelt kit £90

sub total: £5777

vat: £1010.98

TOTAL: £6787.98

cheers for the help guys

wow! thats dear for the price that cost rather buy a glanza v!

13th June 2011, 13:37

i know thats what i thought thats why i was asking if you really need all of that haha

13th June 2011, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

Turbo conversion stage 1 (250bhp) parts list

*DP engineering tubular manifold-
GT25R turbo -
DP 2.5" stainless downpipe - *

DP TURBO KIT - £1582

Remember this kit comes with the water cooling connection kit you're being quoted for elsewhere too...
http://www.dp-engineering.nl/EN/prod..._16v_compo.php

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

mocal oil cooler kit with remote filter take off £250

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MOCAL-REMOTE-O...9#ht_500wt_922 - remote filter location kit, £90. Plus the 13 row cooler - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mocal-Oil-Cool...#ht_1434wt_905 - thats £60. Contact Kam Racing etc for a unique setup. Saving £100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

custom 2.5" exhaust system £300

Very good price that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

491cc injectors £342

How much?? Ouch. Remember thats plus vat so £400. Try these: http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/engin.../prod_255.html - £250 all in delivered - saving £150.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

bosch 4bar FPR £58

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Audi-Seat-1...#ht_500wt_1156
Saving £18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

walbro 255 fuel pump £80

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WALBRO-GSS342-...#ht_2213wt_905
Saving £11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

budget radiator, header tank and intercooler kit £350

Ouch. 106 diesel Rad (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-106-CI...#ht_1399wt_905) - £40. GMC Header tank (http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/super.../prod_500.html) - £70. GT3 intercooler (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-INTE...d#ht_772wt_905) - £75. Total £185. Saving £165.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

silicone hoses, £200

Using Samco maybe. Use ASH and you can probably halve that. Saving £100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

vacuum hoses, £40

More like £20, but okay...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

boost pipes (straight lengths ali tube) £20

Fair price that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

air filter, £60

And that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

coolant hoses, £30

only coolant hose you need is to turbo - about £10 max. Saving £20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

boost controller, £175

Omex does this onboard - no need for an external boost controller if you're on a budget. Saving £175.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

cooling fan, £80

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-RADIATOR-CO...item1c1b146241
£30, saving £50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

uprated engine mounts, £150

Baker BM ones are much nicer than the vibra technics ones imo - and cheaper too. I've lost the leaflet I got from them at the FCS, but seem to remember it was about £90 for the set. Saving £60.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

sub total: £5777

vat: £1010.98

TOTAL: £6787.98

All the above ebay parts etc are including vat already. 20% adds up...

Above already saves you £969, and that's without really shopping around.

It may sound silly when you isolate all the parts (like saving £11 here, or £15 there) but when you buy 15 components and save £10 on each one, that's £150 towards something else. And that's the attitude I went into my first build with. Save where you can, spend where you want

PS - just to add - it depends what you're trying to do. When I built mine last year, obviously I was trying to do everything on as low cost as I could, but still build a decent setup. We managed it with parts like the above. We did the work ourselves, so saved a lot of money there too, sourcing parts as cheaply as possibly everywhere we could. There IS something to be said for just handing the car to someone to get you all the parts (or do the build for you!) if thats' your thing. I wanted to save money so sourced and researched every part I possibly could.

Dont forget your mapping sessions either - £400-500 max.

13th June 2011, 13:46

Cheers mate thats a real help! is that list all i would need to get the setup running? as that makes it alot cheaper

13th June 2011, 13:53

you still need to buy a solenoid to use the omex built in boost controll feature.

there are other kits available that will comfotably forfill your power needs.

13th June 2011, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

Cheers mate thats a real help! is that list all i would need to get the setup running? as that makes it alot cheaper

There's always more parts you forget. For example the boss you need to weld into the alloy top boost pipe for the dump valve take off. Things like that - or the host clamps - we spent easily £100 on hose clamps alone.

Danny is right also - you need a solenoid to use the omex boost controller. Still a lot cheaper than the Gizzmo.

As Danny also said, there's other setups you could do if you're on a real budget - it's all about what you want, Vs what you can afford! Plenty of people have done a full build for £2000 ish - it's all about what you can do without and what you can make yourself

13th June 2011, 14:03

Cheers way need someone with your knowhow around my way to help out haha how good is the mf2 ecu you were talking about! I ideally want it to be a decent spec but not costing to much just so i can get it going but obviously i would probably add it it in the future

13th June 2011, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesb0303

Cheers way need someone with your knowhow around my way to help out haha how good is the mf2 ecu you were talking about! I ideally want it to be a decent spec but not costing to much just so i can get it going but obviously i would probably add it it in the future

i personally wouldnt use an mf2. for the price the predator ecu's are id get one of those instead.

look at the cituning kits. they are more affordable. not as good quality as the dp stuff but a cheaper way to having a turbocharged running rather than talking about it.

13th June 2011, 14:13

Again, listen to Danny

The predator is a good ECU mappable (iirc for free by Andy still included in the purchase price?) by almost everywhere as it's megasquirt based. Only works on single plug looms though, but I'm presuming thats what you've got.

There's plenty of people now who have gone boost from various directions - full on homebrew budget builds to balls out mega-power cars. The best bit is here on saxp there's a lot of people willing to give you help where they can.

13th June 2011, 14:57

If you are going to get DP get it through Atspeed, they have the best prices for the gear on the market to my knowledge. Make sure you do shop around for those parts, ebay, spoox, everywhere mate! Trust me money can be saved.

I know the person who had a warped manifold, and i have seen it aswell! its out by 1.3mm some say it will be fine etc, but this person has gone and got his smoothed out! Something a customer should not be doing with a finished product.

13th June 2011, 17:19

Or you could take your car and 2800 quid to mr pred guy luthor, come back the next day and you have a low boost saxo. Magic.

13th June 2011, 17:29

So much useful info in this thread, was a good read and has helped me alot.

13th June 2011, 17:32

have a look on the predator affiliates thread, the guy does in and out conversions on a low boost set up for 2800, which he says will take you to about 170bhp and you might need an exhaust system as it only includes the down pipe.

13th June 2011, 19:14

theres alot of ppl willing to help, lots of reading research forst though

, my set up is "budget build" but not bodged, its been done safley, also VERY cheaply

the predator 3 plug is nearly completed, but for all those who cant wait (like myself) im running a single plug pred in my 3 plug vtr

13th June 2011, 19:45

With the greatest of respect to Andy whom I get on with well, you'll be waiting a LONG time for the 3 plug ecu from him. He told me it was "almost complete" back in janurary ... 2010. Here we are 18 months later and it's still no further on. I even offered him a couple of thousand pounds just to be part of the development as I wanted involvement - eventually I went omex because I just couldn't wait forever on a promise.

13th June 2011, 20:26

omg this is a very eye opening thread, lets keep this information going cus i have been thinking loads about turboing lol

13th June 2011, 22:27

thanks for all the help guys! Cant wait to get this started so much support around

the pred guy sounds good but im looking for 200+bhp and would like to do some things myself

still undecided on setup

13th June 2011, 22:44

if your thinking of turboing, give it all dont half do it. as tiny mistakes here and their put you under stress near the completion of the build.

this thread is full of info how to do it, the site is.

i practically built my own low boost saxo with nothing other than reading and asking a few questions on here. and im fairly shit with a spanner....

13th June 2011, 23:43

going to add this to the turbo guide thread based on the help Ross has given above, good example that if you shop round you can do it on a budget and that goes on all scales just depends how pretty you want certain things

13th June 2011, 23:59

170bhp on low boost really doesn't sound worth the effort to me

i put my turbo on still using standard internals and saw 230bhp at 9.5psi. only thin i had was a 1.9mm hg to lower the compression slightly. i ran the car on more boost too and still had no issues with it and it did make for a genuinely quick car.
just a bit of extra info to add there, you don't need to go all forged to get a decent power gain.

14th June 2011, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

170bhp on low boost really doesn't sound worth the effort to me

i put my turbo on still using standard internals and saw 230bhp at 9.5psi. only thin i had was a 1.9mm hg to lower the compression slightly. i ran the car on more boost too and still had no issues with it and it did make for a genuinely quick car.
just a bit of extra info to add there, you don't need to go all forged to get a decent power gain.

totally agree thre..cant understand how you can get as little as 170hp on a turbo 16v?? what psi? 3-4lol..

maddison's car is running proof things can work without spending shit loads.

also to add, im going to expect around 280hp'ish when mine is mapped very soon.. and thats with standard internals.

14th June 2011, 00:19

I agree aswell seems very low? I want at least 200! what ecu are you running madison ill have a gander at your thread! Want this done soon but dont want to rush so would rather do the research before hand! Thanks for the comments guys

14th June 2011, 00:27

i don't have a progress thread mate

i've got a dta s40pro ecu, had it fitted and mapped by sandy brown. tbh, i owe the reliability and good power output to him. A decent ecu and a decent mapper is essential imo.

14th June 2011, 00:47

Been giving this a good think over the last few days as per the direction of my car. I know I'm going to go 16v at some point and kept thinking do I....

Cams and ITB's (160hp sound about right?)

or spend the extra money and go low boost (unsure on a hp figure but at least theres plenty of scope for tuning depending on your budget)

Shall be keeping an eye on most of the Boost'd Progress Threads (Thank Heavens for email subscriptions!) and making my mind up, got plenty of time anyway.

14th June 2011, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

A decent ecu and a decent mapper is essential imo.

IMO the single most important thing in a build like this is a good map.

To OP, i have also done a budget turbo build i dont have time to right loads of stuff in here about it but feel free to have a look through my progress thread. A DTA, loom and map from GR will probably set you back about 1k... but it will be the best 1k you will spend.

14th June 2011, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

i don't have a progress thread mate

i've got a dta s40pro ecu, had it fitted and mapped by sandy brown. tbh, i owe the reliability and good power output to him. A decent ecu and a decent mapper is essential imo.

Comments like these keep me assured im making the correct decision.

14th June 2011, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by J222JRA

Comments like these keep me assured im making the correct decision.

what decision is that james?

14th June 2011, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

i don't have a progress thread mate

i've got a dta s40pro ecu, had it fitted and mapped by sandy brown. tbh, i owe the reliability and good power output to him. A decent ecu and a decent mapper is essential imo.

Ahhh all ive heard is good things about this guy might have a word with him and sort something out! How much did it set you back matee

14th June 2011, 11:54

The dp engineering kit has been mentioned above but what other choices have you got when it comes to the turbo. Again looking at the 200 - 220bhp atw figure.

Will be using the cituning manifold and downpipe just because it's cheaper.

14th June 2011, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikydan

The dp engineering kit has been mentioned above but what other choices have you got when it comes to the turbo. Again looking at the 200 - 220bhp atw figure.

Will be using the cituning manifold and downpipe just because it's cheaper.

Welcome to the forums

The DP kit is made up of standard garrett turbos, on their manifolds with their downpipe and fittings.

Your question is a little wooly unfortunately! If you mean what are your choices with turbos, the answer is "lots"! From IHI to garrett, kkk etc. However, if you want to use a dp manifold then your better sticking with garrett in my opinion (DP will fit a TD or K flange at extra cost). Of course, there's nothing stopping you mixing and matching anything you want.

For 200atw, you're looking at 220atf. Thats a really nice figure to have as it's really fun and really drivable! AND you get to play with the smaller turbos.

Don't be put off by running a smaller turbo - if you're not chasing power figures, the smaller the turbo the better because it allows really fast spool and therefore drivability across the whole rev range. A GT25 would be an ideal turbo for you and around town and on short point to points, you'd be untouchable because of how quick the car would come on boost

14th June 2011, 12:44

Actually on 106owners (Dan!) just only view this forum

Seem to have more people with knowledge around boost on hear though which is good!

What i mean by my post is basically going to by the cituning manifold and downpipe which is £455 i believe but i dont fancy spending £600 on a turbo for what i want.

I'll be just using this car on the road so need a quick spooling turbo. Could you suggest a turbo from a production car that would be ideal? This would obviously be cheaper to buy..

I could buy the dp engineering kit but would prefer to save my pennies as i dont have any intentions of going for more power at a later date. It just would not be needed.

Thanks for your reply ross.

14th June 2011, 12:48

if you could get a different flange welded on the manifold for 220hp a ko3s turbo off audi tt would be ideal. or a td04, or gt22 etc etc.. shit loads of options.. the garret range is good but again you pay more for it, which is expected.

14th June 2011, 13:00

Grab a TD04 flange from ebay and have that welded to the cituning manifold if they dont offer the td flange as standard. TD04's are cheap as chips and a good turbo for your needs - especially the smaller end of the range, like the 13G. Avoid the 09B though, as thats really designed for petrol strimmers and ride on lawn mowers

14th June 2011, 13:05

There are actually TD04s ross that have the weired 3 bolt exhaust flange the cituning downpipe uses the manifold is the standard 4 bolt t2* style one

14th June 2011, 13:16

Ive got a gt2871rs. feels sluggish to spool up sometimes but im putting that own to not being used to what gear to be in yet!

Cant wait until its fully mapped and i can ee how it performs properly! Where should i be expecting it to spool up? thing its around 4.5k atm!

14th June 2011, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieVTS

Ive got a gt2871rs. feels sluggish to spool up sometimes but im putting that own to not being used to what gear to be in yet!

Cant wait until its fully mapped and i can ee how it performs properly! Where should i be expecting it to spool up? thing its around 4.5k atm!

that sounds about right for that turbo mate. it certainly wouldnt be my first (2nd,3rd,4th) choice in turbo but it certainly gives good power. if i were you id sell the gt2871r and buy a gt28rs

14th June 2011, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

There are actually TD04s ross that have the weired 3 bolt exhaust flange the cituning downpipe uses the manifold is the standard 4 bolt t2* style one

Ah I didn't know that about the cituning stuff - never looked at it. Useful to know for others though for sure

14th June 2011, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieVTS

Ive got a gt2871rs. feels sluggish to spool up sometimes but im putting that own to not being used to what gear to be in yet!

Cant wait until its fully mapped and i can ee how it performs properly! Where should i be expecting it to spool up? thing its around 4.5k atm!

2871 wouldn't be a good choice for this engine - it's fairly mismatched to the engine. See if you can find someone with a 2860 who wants to swap

The 71 will make more top end power, but at the price of spool, as you're discovering.

Don't expect that to improve.

14th June 2011, 14:26

I think I am going to look into the VNTs for my next build something that will spool from 1500 and gold out to 6250 will be fine just case of finding a good one or something similar from the usual suspects that will do similar

14th June 2011, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

I think I am going to look into the VNTs for my next build something that will spool from 1500 and gold out to 6250 will be fine just case of finding a good one or something similar from the usual suspects that will do similar

Think I'll just use a TD04, seem to be available pretty cheaply...

14th June 2011, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieVTS

Ive got a gt2871rs. feels sluggish to spool up sometimes but im putting that own to not being used to what gear to be in yet!

Cant wait until its fully mapped and i can ee how it performs properly! Where should i be expecting it to spool up? thing its around 4.5k atm!

not an ideal turbo for a saxo however it is an ideal turbo for my s14a so if you want to sell it, pm me!

14th June 2011, 18:09

im running a t25 from a 200sx, starts spooling about 1500 and reaches full boost around 2750-2950, ideal, and thats with a pretty decent sized i/c and 2.25" boost piping

on the pred i dotn know how long andy is away with it, pretty sure he said only recently it wont be much longer, but i needed one quick and found on eat a good price, so i bought it, easy enough to get the loom re plugged at the chassis side

14th June 2011, 22:39

i've just got my hands on a t25 hybrid off a frst for my vtr its going to be hard to fit but hay its going to be worth it

14th June 2011, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

im running a t25 from a 200sx, starts spooling about 1500 and reaches full boost around 2750-2950, ideal, and thats with a pretty decent sized i/c and 2.25" boost piping

on the pred i dotn know how long andy is away with it, pretty sure he said only recently it wont be much longer, but i needed one quick and found on eat a good price, so i bought it, easy enough to get the loom re plugged at the chassis side

Will this T25 200sx turbo fit onto the cituning manifold blackie?
sounds promising if so.

15th June 2011, 00:28

This thread has been needed for a long time!

So if im looking for 300atw and a good spool what turbo's should i be looking at? I havnt had enough seat time or even full boost to get a feel of whats best.

15th June 2011, 09:40

Blackie does the t25 boost all the way to the limiter or does it 'tail off'?

15th June 2011, 12:11

alot of cituning mani's run t25 flange so dont see why not, but id check to make sure, as for boosting it depends what your limiter is set to. Mine's still pulling hard at 7k, will check tongight and report back, on phone atm

15th June 2011, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieVTS

This thread has been needed for a long time!

So if im looking for 300atw and a good spool what turbo's should i be looking at? I havnt had enough seat time or even full boost to get a feel of whats best.

With what other mods? You wont see 300atw on a 2860 without extensive headwork as a minimum, or a different inlet, or cams, or a combination etc, and even then you'll be on the limit of the turbo flow rate anyway).

Everyone seems to be fixed on this "magic" 300 figure. Remember it's all about the MAP (drivability), not about the peak figure it makes.

15th June 2011, 15:04

tbh I think for a road car 200-250BHP atw would be able to bone most things

15th June 2011, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

tbh I think for a road car 200-250BHP atw would be able to bone most things

i just love your way with words

15th June 2011, 15:07

Ive only got 300 in mind as that figure gets pinged about alot. Unfortunaty i dont have the time (or knowledge) to compare turbo's. Like i say i havnt been in any other pug turbo's so have no idea of how my turbo compares to others in the real world. Is the 2871rs bad enough that i need to swap it?

I think i'll get it mapped and set up. Then see how it feels.

All this means is that you deffo need to take me out in yours to compare

15th June 2011, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

tbh I think for a road car 200-250BHP atw would be able to bone most things

awsome words of wisdom there gav, very true tho.

15th June 2011, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

With what other mods? You wont see 300atw on a 2860 without extensive headwork as a minimum, or a different inlet, or cams, or a combination etc, and even then you'll be on the limit of the turbo flow rate anyway).

Everyone seems to be fixed on this "magic" 300 figure. Remember it's all about the MAP (drivability), not about the peak figure it makes.

im sure colin made around 300atw with a gt28rs.. that was on standard inlet/cams/no headwork. ok not for long i admit, but it did make the power.

hold on ross, why are you saying all this "Everyone seems to be fixed on this "magic" 300 figure. Remember it's all about the MAP (drivability), not about the peak figure it makes" when your doing what your doing with your car... excuse me if im wrong but the impression i get is that you were building a trackday car not a competition car or drag car??? well thats what the thread title says anyway.

there are more than just a couple of people who want to reach their own goals.. me included.

agree with the majority though, any saxo/106 with 200hp+ is a genuinly quick car.

15th June 2011, 16:15

Mine was 270atw last year (300atf with 10% losses unlike 20% loss you also see thrown about a lot!). Would bone ANYTHING from 30-130 mph. More than enough on the road. Really. Including 400+ bhp skylines, 400bhp evos etc.

The 2871 will maybe get you close to 300 if you've got your heart set on it. But really - get it setup well and you'll have so much fun you won't care. And honestly - if you drive a 280 bhp saxo then a 300 bhp saxo, you won't notice the difference. Theyll both try and kill you

Danny. My objectives have changed somewhat. Last years car was a road car. This year I'm after more power for other reasons. Doesn't have to be as drivable.

As for Colin making 300atw on stock everything. I think you know my feelings on that already...

15th June 2011, 16:34

Just a question, mainly aimed at ross...

What power will the ma box take (in your opinion) before it begins to strip gears?
I've stripped 3rd once in mine when it was tad over 200bhp atw, it was wheelspinning, and then suddenly gripped and boom 3rd gear said good night. However, I ran more boost/more power and didn't have an issue.
Would 250bhp at the wheels do this on a regular basis? Or were you on the be set up when you had 270atw?

15th June 2011, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

Just a question, mainly aimed at ross...

What power will the ma box take (in your opinion) before it begins to strip gears?
I've stripped 3rd once in mine when it was tad over 200bhp atw, it was wheelspinning, and then suddenly gripped and boom 3rd gear said good night. However, I ran more boost/more power and didn't have an issue.
Would 250bhp at the wheels do this on a regular basis? Or were you on the be set up when you had 270atw?

I'm not really in a position to answer that mate to be honest - I went straight to BE and never ran boost on the MA. To the best of my knowledge though, Titch, Shaun, and Brent all ran MA's for a while and didn't kill them instantly - I think a lot has to do with having some mechanical sympathy. Colin got through a lot of boxes because he has none! I think it's fair to say though you're asking for trouble - even the most careful driver will get the situation like you've described eventually - loss of traction then a sudden gain of grip. And 3rd gear seems to be the weak point on the MA's from what I've read.

I once asked John @ GMC at what point the MA gives up and he said "120bhp"

I think thats enough said hehe. You're living on borrowed time on an MA.

Get a BE in - if nothing else, you'll not ever be bothered about a diff swap again - 20 minutes, boom. done. Do that in your MA.

The BE is a better box in SO many areas. Gearkits are far more common, easier to work on, stronger. And you can do a complete conversion for around the £800 mark now so it's a sound investment for sure

15th June 2011, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

I'm not really in a position to answer that mate to be honest - I went straight to BE and never ran boost on the MA. To the best of my knowledge though, Titch, Shaun, and Brent all ran MA's for a while and didn't kill them instantly - I think a lot has to do with having some mechanical sympathy. Colin got through a lot of boxes because he has none! I think it's fair to say though you're asking for trouble - even the most careful driver will get the situation like you've described eventually - loss of traction then a sudden gain of grip. And 3rd gear seems to be the weak point on the MA's from what I've read.

I once asked John @ GMC at what point the MA gives up and he said "120bhp"

I think thats enough said hehe. You're living on borrowed time on an MA.

Get a BE in - if nothing else, you'll not ever be bothered about a diff swap again - 20 minutes, boom. done. Do that in your MA.

The BE is a better box in SO many areas. Gearkits are far more common, easier to work on, stronger. And you can do a complete conversion for around the £800 mark now so it's a sound investment for sure

bugger, I was hoping you'd have ran the ma for a while! I want to get a bit more power from mine but I don't know when would be best to call it a day, 200 atw proved to be very reliable and I'm slightly nervous about going for more power because of the extra expense it could incur.
The be conversion has always been something I've tried to avoid because I never wanted the expense of it, is it really worth it? Have you had any transmission related problems with yours?
Another thing putting me off the be is how much i spent on a friggin ma box by putting the quaife diff in it!

15th June 2011, 16:55

sell the quaife -someone will bite your hand off for it. Plus the BE diffs are cheaper so you'll not lose money on it

I ran a BE without a lsd for 4-5 months and it was a lot of fun (although ovbiously span a fair bit). I know it's expensive but you'll have peace of mind. How much is that worth to you?

I've broken a BE box (well, it started to make some fairly horrible noises before we swapped it for another) and Colin's broke one on the dyno. To my knowledge other people haven't though so we might just have had weak boxes for those. Titch drives like he stole it EVERYWHERE and smashes it through the box and his is bombproof - I'd really recommend it.

15th June 2011, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

bugger, I was hoping you'd have ran the ma for a while! I want to get a bit more power from mine but I don't know when would be best to call it a day, 200 atw proved to be very reliable and I'm slightly nervous about going for more power because of the extra expense it could incur.
The be conversion has always something I've tried to avoid because I never wanted the expense of it, is it really worth it? Have you had any transmission related problems with yours?
Another thing putting me off the be is how much i spent on a friggin ma box by putting the quaife diff in it!

you can recoup some of that money though cant you mate.. thats what im doing. runnig my quaifed ma until winter (unless it breaks in between) then doing BE conversion over winter. the BE box conversions will continue to get cheaper as people become more aware of it and more people offer the conversions. good things is, we can get the rich people like ross,dean,colin t spend all money getting them right so when it comes to the peasants running them they should be mor affordable and more reliable.

15th June 2011, 16:59

ideal, thanks guys. So you reckon 800 for a full be conversion? Shafts etc?

And danny, money is always an issue for me!

15th June 2011, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

you can recoup some of that money though cant you mate.. thats what im doing. runnig my quaifed ma until winter (unless it breaks in between) then doing BE conversion over winter. the BE box conversions will continue to get cheaper as people become more aware of it and more people offer the conversions. good things is, we can get the rich people like ross,dean,colin t spend all money getting them right so when it comes to the peasants running them they should be mor affordable and more reliable.

haha thats a bit mean

I consider them "cheap" now - you can get a set of brand new "ultimate F1 superdupa suck-you-off spec" shafts made up complete for £600, the box for £100 from a scrappy, the mounts new for £150, the selector rods you can adapt your own, new intermediate bearing for £80. Thrust bearing? £20. Fork arm £5 from a scrappy. Sorted. Don't need to diff it to start. Sell the diff'd MA box for what? £600? Only need to find about £250 to convert it.

Sorted. Future proofed, and peace of mind

15th June 2011, 17:07

Not to mention there's at least two sets of full BE converted shafts for sale right now that I know of for around the £500 mark. Mine and Titchs...

15th June 2011, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by OllieVTS

Ive only got 300 in mind as that figure gets pinged about alot. Unfortunaty i dont have the time (or knowledge) to compare turbo's. Like i say i havnt been in any other pug turbo's so have no idea of how my turbo compares to others in the real world. Is the 2871rs bad enough that i need to swap it?

I think i'll get it mapped and set up. Then see how it feels.

All this means is that you deffo need to take me out in yours to compare

I have been out in a 2871rs and there is a bit of lag...

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

bugger, I was hoping you'd have ran the ma for a while! I want to get a bit more power from mine but I don't know when would be best to call it a day, 200 atw proved to be very reliable and I'm slightly nervous about going for more power because of the extra expense it could incur.
The be conversion has always been something I've tried to avoid because I never wanted the expense of it, is it really worth it? Have you had any transmission related problems with yours?
Another thing putting me off the be is how much i spent on a friggin ma box by putting the quaife diff in it!

Paxo89 (dan) is running 222 atw on his turbo charged saxo, no problems as of yet, but to be honest, does not smash through gears on full boost and i do think the wheels spinning is helping him alot. Semi slicks on a warm day and there could be some problems!

15th June 2011, 17:33

I imagine if it has an open diff it won't have too many issues as once it wheelspins it won't try to regain grip!

15th June 2011, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

I imagine if it has an open diff it won't have too many issues as once it wheelspins it won't try to regain grip!

Thats right mate, just let it spin or change tbh. Its a shame in some ways that not all full power is able to go through and be transfered, however, i guess at the minute its saving him hassle! Also has a spare VTR box just incase!

One of his top priorities is to get the BE conversion kit from somewhere with a diff.

15th June 2011, 18:26

Bingo to the above really guys. Wheelspin will actually help prolong the life of the box in some ways - as you've highlighted if it doesnt spin but you still try an put the power through it, something else has to give way - normally 3rd gear

Titch always said it was a mixed blessing going BE - he said the MA was the most fun thing he'd ever driven but at the cost of reliability. The BE is less raw but more reliable. From what I remember of brents (non diff, MA) that thing made a bee-line for the hedge everytime it saw a wiff of boost

15th June 2011, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

Bingo to the above really guys. Wheelspin will actually help prolong the life of the box in some ways - as you've highlighted if it doesnt spin but you still try an put the power through it, something else has to give way - normally 3rd gear

Titch always said it was a mixed blessing going BE - he said the MA was the most fun thing he'd ever driven but at the cost of reliability. The BE is less raw but more reliable. From what I remember of brents (non diff, MA) that thing made a bee-line for the hedge everytime it saw a wiff of boost

Im running MA VTR box with a diff and trs driveshaft......

It still tries!

Arghh all this turbo talks wrecked my head now! Do i persist with the 2871rs or is it worth selling it now while its fresh and going for something else?

Im Going to make a boosted gearbox thread to try keep the box and turbo talk separate.

15th June 2011, 18:36

Check this out on ebay im selling item no 12073761506

15th June 2011, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesvtsT

Check this out on ebay im selling item no 12073761506

doest work mate

15th June 2011, 18:48

Woops 120737761509

15th June 2011, 23:06

maddison, u gunna rebuild the s engine with a bit more mmmpppphhhh, sweet.
im gunna be looking into the be conversion towards the end of the year, maybe we could help each other out.

19th June 2011, 14:10

How come on boosted cars people run header tanks? Is this something is needed?

19th June 2011, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

How come on boosted cars people run header tanks? Is this something is needed?

so you can use a better radiator.. the standard rad has an in built header tank which gets in the way of most applictations..
you will find you will need to move the rad forward to give you enough space. so one option is a diesel rad which uses a header tank.

19th June 2011, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

so you can use a better radiator.. the standard rad has an in built header tank which gets in the way of most applictations..
you will find you will need to move the rad forward to give you enough space. so one option is a diesel rad which uses a header tank.

Ive noticed that the diesel rads are as wide as the normal vtr/s ones.

Was your header tank easily made danny? Want one that would sit on top of drivers arch.

19th June 2011, 14:23

i have a diesel header tank whish sits on drivers arch

19th June 2011, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathias

i have a diesel header tank whish sits on drivers arch

Got any pictures? I havent seen a saxo deisel one before so unsure what they are like.

19th June 2011, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Ive noticed that the diesel rads are as wide as the normal vtr/s ones.

Was your header tank easily made danny? Want one that would sit on top of drivers arch.

i wouldnt say it was easily made but its not too bad. you have to take a few things into consideration but not rocket science. there are plenty of cars you could use one from.

19th June 2011, 14:31

will get some later for you its from a 105 1.5 diesel, it even mounts on the fittings for your ecu tray so just bolts straight on

19th June 2011, 14:42

seen lots of ppl use aer market renault 5 header tanks as theyre cheap and readily available

19th June 2011, 14:49

thsi is the one i have http://www.spoox.co.uk/catalog/produ...73ae71c76ad625

pm me if interested

19th June 2011, 16:50

how much?!?!

looks same as the AX Diesel one. Get down a scrapyard!!

19th June 2011, 20:17

just gonna throw this into the equation and ask if you'd use the turbo cams or not?

whats difference would there be in using standard, turbo or ph3/ph4/708/etc?

as in http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/c...s-1321735.html

19th June 2011, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

how much?!?!

looks same as the AX Diesel one. Get down a scrapyard!!

ax diesel and 106 diesel, got mine from the scrap yard for a tenner, pic was just to show

19th June 2011, 22:37

Been offered a manifold and downpipe for a t3/t4 turbo, what turbo could you run off this for 1.6 16v.

Should i go for this or get one suited to a t2/25

19th June 2011, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikydan

Been offered a manifold and downpipe for a t3/t4 turbo, what turbo could you run off this for 1.6 16v.

Should i go for this or get one suited to a t2/25

if you want one that spooled by you will be looking at a gt17 or something..
not many quick spooling turbos that have t3 fitment. t2/25 is what you need

19th June 2011, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

if you want one that spooled by you will be looking at a gt17 or something..
not many quick spooling turbos that have t3 fitment. t2/25 is what you need

Thanks Danny,

Great help mate.

19th June 2011, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikydan

Thanks Danny,

Great help mate.

whats your budget for the turbo? there is a great garret turbo that would make for a proper road monster

19th June 2011, 23:16

i have no budgets, BUT, i don't want to spend stupid money on the entire build so everything isn't going to be 'brand new best possible parts you can get' sorta thing.

Want to achieve 200 - 220 atw, pred ecu, decomp plate.

want to spend sub 4k really.

19th June 2011, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikydan

i have no budgets, BUT, i don't want to spend stupid money on the entire build so everything isn't going to be 'brand new best possible parts you can get' sorta thing.

Want to achieve 200 - 220 atw, pred ecu, decomp plate.

want to spend sub 4k really.

dnt think anyone on this scene has used this turbo, but it looks a great turbo for fast road use. small, potent and would spool as quick as youd ever want

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...9_452214_3.htm

19th June 2011, 23:22

what turbo is that?

19th June 2011, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikydan

what turbo is that?

sorry pal, edited my previous post with a link

19th June 2011, 23:34

Im not really clued up on this tbh but i noticed its oil cooling which is easier than water too.

Does the graph show that its at peak power at quite high psi or am i reading it wrong?

I take it something like this would be around 500 - 700 new?

Fancy making me a manifold?

19th June 2011, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikydan

Im not really clued up on this tbh but i noticed its oil cooling which is easier than water too.

Does the graph show that its at peak power at quite high psi or am i reading it wrong?

I take it something like this would be around 500 - 700 new?

Fancy making me a manifold?

if your looking at the compressor map then you have to take into consideration atmospheric pressure is 1 bar already. so if you look at 2.5bar on the map then its really 1.5bar of turbo pressure.quite difficult to understand.

yes, imagine it would be around that cost.

unfortunatly mate i no longer have the resources

19th June 2011, 23:45

Really in two minds what to do, been looking at the dp engineering kits for around 1600 with the gt25 turbo but then im not sure on a budget alternative that i could run.

Theres the cituing (miltek) mani and downpipe for 455 but what turbo could i bolt on that and then i have the problem of getting oil feed from sump which comes in the dp kit already.

Ahhh, that's a shame about the manifold. Know anyone else that can make a home brew one up (reasonable quality) thats more budget than the cituning?

19th June 2011, 23:53

oil feed snd returtn is easy just go to local hydraulics place got both for 20 when i did mine

the cituning kit will take a gt17 found on saab 9-3 and 9-5s or a t25 off a saab 9000, but can get td04 in cituning fittment to plenty of choice

19th June 2011, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

oil feed snd returtn is easy just go to local hydraulics place got both for 20 when i did mine

the cituning kit will take a gt17 found on saab 9-3 and 9-5s or a t25 off a saab 9000, but can get td04 in cituning fittment to plenty of choice

That's good to know. Thanks.

I might just buy the cituning manifold and down pipe. It sounds like it'll be good enough for what i need. Is the gt17 not too small for 200 - 220 atw? can't see the specs on the garrett website.

20th June 2011, 00:06

td04 its what mathias has his is around 200 speak to deekb for link to turbo as he found a place selling new good price

20th June 2011, 00:20

im looking to put a turbo on my 01 vtr and was told a kit of a starlet turbo can be fitted on is this true? thanks

20th June 2011, 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikydan

That's good to know. Thanks.

I might just buy the cituning manifold and down pipe. It sounds like it'll be good enough for what i need. Is the gt17 not too small for 200 - 220 atw? can't see the specs on the garrett website.

i use a gt17, made 200 atw (230atf) at 9.5 psi without a decomp plate and i ran more boost with no issues. turbo begins to spool at 1,500 and holds to 7,000. it gives a very smooth power delivery making it very useable and capable of putting the power down very very well.

shameless plug - i am contemplating advertising all my turbo bits and management for sale. pm me if interesed.

20th June 2011, 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by maddison_vts

i use a gt17, made 200 atw (230atf) at 9.5 psi without a decomp plate and i ran more boost with no issues. turbo begins to spool at 1,500 and holds to 7,000. it gives a very smooth power delivery making it very useable and capable of putting the power down very very well.

shameless plug - i am contemplating advertising all my turbo bits and management for sale. pm me if interesed.

if you are pm me with full list of bits and price i've got a guy wanting to 16v turbo

20th June 2011, 09:51

lool i just pmed as well

20th June 2011, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chr15

just gonna throw this into the equation and ask if you'd use the turbo cams or not?

whats difference would there be in using standard, turbo or ph3/ph4/708/etc?

as in http://www.kamracing.co.uk/citroen/c...s-1321735.html

yeah i would also like to know more about this lol

21st June 2011, 01:01

the turbo cams are designed for turbo applications, they tend to have a less aggressive exhaust cam to reduce any over lapping issues that can occure when running say, 708s,ph3s, 285s, with boost as these tend to be to aggressive and overlapping issues can happen.

24th June 2011, 21:00

Just found this:

A direct to head inline turbo oil filter/adapter - as advertised elsewhere for £25

Available in -3 (suits dp oil feeds) or -4 pipe sizes. Anodised aluminum, available in black, blue or red.

£14

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-4AN-Blue-Ano...#ht_1559wt_689

24th June 2011, 21:15

wow thats a good find ross,

but on closer inspection thats -4 or -3 both ends so would require additional piping and fittings to fit it.. which would add to cost.. so it isnt the specially made item for direct fitment to the 106 heads advertised for £25 elsewhere that you mentioned.. as these are not an- 3 or -4 on the heads.. so wouldnt fit unfortunately

not without using various adapters (again adding to cost) but making the fitting far too long and possible prone to snap... so a custom fitting was required and designed.. i waited 6 months for them to arrive!

elsewhere: http://atspeedracing.co.uk/products/...roducts_id=299

- colin.

24th June 2011, 21:24

Thanks for your input Colin. As you know, torques will do either fitting size, on either end. For no additional charge. Gotta love torques eh?

24th June 2011, 21:27

well was discussing cost for the fittings the other day before listing them online, and me and alex (torques) decided on the price so not to undercut each other.

weve used torques for a long time. quality is on par with goodridge etc and cheaper too.

- colin

25th June 2011, 16:59

Yep love torques myself

Correct item for the direct to head figment (obviously only useful on a j4 engine as a jp4 you'll be getting oil from elsewhere or retapping the ball bearing to whatever size you want):
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/170658129608?r...#ht_1760wt_424

If you guys have got an agreement on price, looks like their not sticking to it

25th June 2011, 17:05

yes already sorting that

30th June 2011, 17:39

What oil filter can you run using the dp manifold and downpipe? Would a standard one fit?

30th June 2011, 19:20

i would say you can run standard oil filter. but its close and will probably melt. also running a turbo set up its wise to invest in an oilcooler+ oil filter relocation kit, even on my low blow saxo, temps are nice and low with an oil cooler.

30th June 2011, 19:23

No you cannot run a standard filter. You should use a filter relocation and oil cooler. If you don't, you need a Renault 5 filter - I can't remember the part number but it's on my blog I think.

30th June 2011, 21:45

bosch P3336 is the slim filter we use.

you can use the P3336 with the stock "water cooled" cooler.. just! but can only be removed if downpipe is removed lol.

an oil cooler is highly recommended, so an air/oil cooler is recommended, with remote filter housing.. which can go anywhere and allows a larger filter to be used.

- colin

30th June 2011, 22:43

I have got a oil cooler already. Where am i able to get filter relocation from? Where would it best to mount?

1st July 2011, 16:26

ebay, speedflow, places like that.

some people mount them in the bay, personally i mount it on the lower cross member, high enough so it doesnt get smashed off over bumps obviously. and keeps oil hoses neat and tucked out the way of things.

- colin.

1st July 2011, 19:02

mines mounted the back of my intercooler. you can mount above the intercooler.

ive always seen them somewhere in the front bumper as theirs a bit of space.

2nd July 2011, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by atspeedracing

ebay, speedflow, places like that.

some people mount them in the bay, personally i mount it on the lower cross member, high enough so it doesnt get smashed off over bumps obviously. and keeps oil hoses neat and tucked out the way of things.

- colin.

Yes i had seen a someone on 106oc with that but had the oil cooler in front pas side behind bumper and filter sat behind radiator but the hoses were coming from where the standard filter goes to filter relocation then to the oil cooler and looked a neat and tidy setup.

2nd July 2011, 21:34

Why does oil filter need moving? I just put a smaller Subaru Impreza WRX filter on mine and it works a treat

3rd July 2011, 09:36

Well if im able to just a smaller filter on then that would be fine and save me some cash to spend elsewhere on the build.

3rd July 2011, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Well if im able to just a smaller filter on then that would be fine and save me some cash to spend elsewhere on the build.

I dont know if theres a reason everyone else has moved theres but I havent. Just used the smaller blue filters fro scoobs, there tiny

3rd July 2011, 16:46

the renault 5 ones are also used alot, thats what im running

the only main advantages of moving the filter is getting it further away from the really hot mani/downpipe/turbo, and running a bigger filter...which lets face it is never a bad thing

3rd July 2011, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

the renault 5 ones are also used alot, thats what im running

the only main advantages of moving the filter is getting it further away from the really hot mani/downpipe/turbo, and running a bigger filter...which lets face it is never a bad thing

Something like this-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-5-...item4152e9d57d

3rd July 2011, 17:06

thats the one mate, straight on no mods, lots of other cars run them also

10th July 2011, 03:45

What clutches are people running?

10th July 2011, 13:15

well im running standard clutch and gearbox. and 8psi has ripped it to fuck. squeals badly off power now

so dont use standard if i were you.

10th July 2011, 13:31

Depends on how much torque you're running. Most setups are fine with a single 6 paddle (no point running a 4 paddle as 6 paddle is about £30 more and gives 1/3 more life). Others for higher power choose a twin plate setup but these are quite noisy in neutral.

Last year at 300bhp/250ft/lb I ran this:
http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/clutc.../prod_448.html

Now I'm running this (and to my knowledge am the only person to do so) - it requires a hydraulic conversion and a BE gearbox:
http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/clutc.../prod_619.html

10th July 2011, 18:33

Shaun has offered me a brand new 4 paddle helix for a good price, think this will probably do me for the power and torque im planning on making.

10th July 2011, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davo106

Shaun has offered me a brand new 4 paddle helix for a good price, think this will probably do me for the power and torque im planning on making.

Dont buy it if its a good price mate, clutch is something you do not want going or slipping! Just like brakes, get a little more than you need!

10th July 2011, 19:05

Tbh it'll be fine for what i need, was just wondering what people with similar spec to what i plan to run are using. People like Blackie... thats the sort of power im after so needs to be able to deal with about 170bhp.

12th July 2011, 17:15

Looking at getting my remote oil filter setup rather than going for the smaller filter. I have already got the oil cooler and thermo sandwich plate but im unsure about using the thermo plate fitted to engine then braided lines upto remote filter then to the oil cooler. Would oil still get through to the filter and oil cooler at anytime or does the thermo sandwich plate stop oil from going through it when gets to a certain temperature??

I just didnt want to set it up that way when i come to setting it up and oil not getting to the filter. Could i use the thermo plate as the remote filter?

Also wheres the best place to get the return welded into the sump- Top,Bottom?

12th July 2011, 17:20

No you can't use a thermo plate with a remote filter as it will only go through when warm enough not all the time,

12th July 2011, 17:20

And sump return must be above the oil level to maintain flow

12th July 2011, 17:23

you want the oil return as high as poss really.

12th July 2011, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

No you can't use a thermo plate with a remote filter as it will only go through when warm enough not all the time,

Well how do i go about having the oil at the correct temp? Could i use the hermo sandwich plate with the filter?

21st October 2011, 06:58

Anyone know what size vaccum hose is needed and if anyone tell me the layout of them when running a external wastegate?

Need some t28 turbo studs?

21st October 2011, 10:35

a thermostatic take off plate with a filter over the top will work but is unlikely to fit behind a turbo

You can alter the cooling properties of the cooler by adjusting the angle of the cooler, thus allowing more or less air through the fins.

i use 4mm silicone vac tube, fits pretty much everything, with just a little cable tie on the boost gauge and FPR as those are a little smaller. Silicone grips really well anyway

I have a turbo with a barbed fitting on the compressor housing, so theres a vac tube going from that to the wastegate actuator, with a T piece in it going to the boost controller

Then theres 2 lines coming from the inlet - one has a T in it with one part going to the boost gauge and the other going to the dump valve. The other has a T in it with one going to the FPR and the other going to the MAP sensor

that should be all you need

21st October 2011, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

a thermostatic take off plate with a filter over the top will work but is unlikely to fit behind a turbo

You can alter the cooling properties of the cooler by adjusting the angle of the cooler, thus allowing more or less air through the fins.

i use 4mm silicone vac tube, fits pretty much everything, with just a little cable tie on the boost gauge and FPR as those are a little smaller. Silicone grips really well anyway

I have a turbo with a barbed fitting on the compressor housing, so theres a vac tube going from that to the wastegate actuator, with a T piece in it going to the boost controller

Then theres 2 lines coming from the inlet - one has a T in it with one part going to the boost gauge and the other going to the dump valve. The other has a T in it with one going to the FPR and the other going to the MAP sensor

that should be all you need

Ive got a small filter which i will be running.

Ok i'll get a 4mm vaccum hose ordered then if thats the size i'll be needing.

Thanks for those instructions of how its set out

21st October 2011, 15:15

See how it fits then - I know I had to remove the turbo and mani to fit my take off plate with no filter on lol very tight! See how you get on though every setup is different

21st October 2011, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gareth_R

See how it fits then - I know I had to remove the turbo and mani to fit my take off plate with no filter on lol very tight! See how you get on though every setup is different

Well i'll be using a dp manifold and downpipe and i got the small filter as colin (atspeed) said thats what they use so all being well should be ok.

What lenght of vaccum pipe would be enough too?

24th January 2012, 17:28

best thing you can do not spend alot is

make your own manifold using a standard one and a flange
a good 2nd hand turbo
universal boost pipes
look at megane intercoolers i got mine for £15!
dump valves on ebay are good

i did mine. so far my build has onlycost £450 and will be running about 130hp from a 1.45 engine

24th January 2012, 21:04

dump valve is also not required...

But I'd put money on most people wanting on it for the noise.

The less power you run the more you can save (as above) - standard vts clutch can cope with a boosted 130hp engine (as you'll see around 130ft/lb also). Same with injectors - just use vts injectors, £20, sorted.

Go from 130hp to 200hp though and you'll start to see significant cost increases as other bits cant cope (clutch, exhaust, injectors, rad, ecu etc etc). Then to 300hp (a real 300...) and it's a much larger jump. Then 400 is a monumental jump, and above that is well, you get the jist...

6th February 2012, 21:42

Just getting this thread back to life instead of making a new one.

Right, this is the list i've made of parts i'm going to be using for my budget 16v boost build. If anyone could answer some of the stuff in brackets, or guide me some more on prices (2nd hand) that would be great. Feel free to give any suggestions for other parts etc as well :Y:

• modded sump with oil feed and return lines (bought - £40)
• cituning mani + downpipe (£450)
• gt17 turbo (£100)
• clio 182 injectors (Best injectors to use? £50??)
• 4bar fpr (where from?) (£30)
• Decomp plate (£100)
• Intercooler (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-...d#ht_772wt_905) (£70)
• Uprated fuel pump (really needed?)
• mocal oil cooler (£100)
• 106 diesel rad (£30)
• Silicone hoses (what is exactly needed?)
• Boost pipes (ally??)
• Air filter (£50)
• Dump valve (£100)

Edit: hoping to get a 3-plug pred for management

6th February 2012, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

Depends on how much torque you're running. Most setups are fine with a single 6 paddle (no point running a 4 paddle as 6 paddle is about £30 more and gives 1/3 more life). Others for higher power choose a twin plate setup but these are quite noisy in neutral.

Last year at 300bhp/250ft/lb I ran this:
http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/clutc.../prod_448.html

Now I'm running this (and to my knowledge am the only person to do so) - it requires a hydraulic conversion and a BE gearbox:
http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/clutc.../prod_619.html

You were cause I went for one up on this! single plate sintered non sprung clutch, safe to say it was an utter nightmare to use!!

6th February 2012, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_O

Just getting this thread back to life instead of making a new one.

Right, this is the list i've made of parts i'm going to be using for my budget 16v boost build. If anyone could answer some of the stuff in brackets, or guide me some more on prices (2nd hand) that would be great. Feel free to give any suggestions for other parts etc as well :Y:

modded sump with oil feed and return lines (bought - £40)
cituning mani + downpipe (£450)
gt17 turbo (£100)
clio 182 injectors (Best injectors to use? £50??)
4bar fpr (where from?) (£30)
Decomp plate (£100)
Intercooler (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-...d#ht_772wt_905) (£70)
Uprated fuel pump (really needed?)
mocal oil cooler (£100)
106 diesel rad (£30)
Silicone hoses (what is exactly needed?)
Boost pipes (ally??)
Air filter (£50)
Dump valve (£100)

Edit: hoping to get a 3-plug pred for management

what's your power aim chris? as some of that stuff can get cheaper

6th February 2012, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

what's your power aim chris? as some of that stuff can get cheaper

I was hoping you would see this lol.

From reading around on budget low boost setups, anywhere between 180 - 200bhp i would be happy with...

6th February 2012, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_O

Just getting this thread back to life instead of making a new one.

Right, this is the list i've made of parts i'm going to be using for my budget 16v boost build. If anyone could answer some of the stuff in brackets, or guide me some more on prices (2nd hand) that would be great. Feel free to give any suggestions for other parts etc as well :Y:

modded sump with oil feed and return lines (bought - £40)
cituning mani + downpipe (£450)
gt17 turbo (£100)
clio 182 injectors (Best injectors to use? £50??)
4bar fpr (where from?) (£30) (go to scrappy and alleviate one from any VAG group car)
Decomp plate (£100) (ferriday engineering for this)
Intercooler (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-...d#ht_772wt_905) (£70)
Uprated fuel pump (really needed?)
mocal oil cooler (£100)
106 diesel rad (£30) (get the 1.5 d lower hose and top overflow one to if needed will pm you how to plumb in)
Silicone hoses (what is exactly needed?)
Boost pipes (ally??)
Air filter (£50)
Dump valve (£100) (if new then yes this price but if you want one I know of a bailey one for sale cheap)

Edit: hoping to get a 3-plug pred for management

in regards to boost hoses and some of the smaller nitty gritty stuff won't know until you do mock up if you get me? with the cituning kit I've always had something in mind how to do all the pipes dead easy infact chris look at how rory is doing his on the vtr won't be to dissimilar

6th February 2012, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

in regards to boost hoses and some of the smaller nitty gritty stuff won't know until you do mock up if you get me? with the cituning kit I've always had something in mind how to do all the pipes dead easy infact chris look at how rory is doing his on the vtr won't be to dissimilar

Thanks for that, great help. Yeh i see what you mean about the boost pipes, wait until ive got mani/turbo/intercooler and go from there. And yeah, i'll pm you nearer the time about the rad setup if that's alright. you have pm anyway lol

7th February 2012, 00:09

ditch the £100 dump valve for one! £30 MAX will get you a nice vag recirc. Put the £70 saving into your boost pipes.

Rest seems about right price wise. Gav's given you some pointers

Factor in:

new headgasket
arp rod bolts (I *REALLY* recommend these... standard rod bolts are made of sticky toffee).
You'll need a header tank too for your rad.
Clutch? 200ft/lb is much too much for standard clutch. Go single plate 6 paddle (see john @ gmc).
GT17 is watercooled - remember to get pipes etc, and figure out routing.
Spark plugs.
Remote oil filter relocation kit - pretty sure the miltek manifold is fouled with even the slim oil filter (renault 5) when it's got a takeoff for oil cooler.
Jubilee Clips - you'll be surprised how many you'll need - don't skimp here. Somewhere around £50 will be ok.

There's lots more - but there's a few bits for you

7th February 2012, 00:57

if anyone is interested i have a moded 16v mani with t2 flange was on simo's pre rebuild got it as part of a kit and i have on use for it as i !!!AM!!! sticking 8v lol

7th February 2012, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

ditch the £100 dump valve for one! £30 MAX will get you a nice vag recirc. Put the £70 saving into your boost pipes.

Rest seems about right price wise. Gav's given you some pointers

Factor in:

new headgasket
arp rod bolts (I *REALLY* recommend these... standard rod bolts are made of sticky toffee).
You'll need a header tank too for your rad.
Clutch? 200ft/lb is much too much for standard clutch. Go single plate 6 paddle (see john @ gmc).
GT17 is watercooled - remember to get pipes etc, and figure out routing.
Spark plugs.
Remote oil filter relocation kit - pretty sure the miltek manifold is fouled with even the slim oil filter (renault 5) when it's got a takeoff for oil cooler.
Jubilee Clips - you'll be surprised how many you'll need - don't skimp here. Somewhere around £50 will be ok.

There's lots more - but there's a few bits for you

Thanks a lot for that. So if the gt17 is watercooled, does that mean it doesnt need an oil feed and return back to the sump?

7th February 2012, 12:38

no - every turbo is at least oil cooled. some are water cooled as well. can you imagine a turbocharger spinning at 100,000 rpm with no lubrication!

7th February 2012, 12:40

Thanks for clearing that up, and yeh that does make sense! That stuff i got off you isn't wasted then lol

7th February 2012, 21:07

Right just a quick question, would it be ok to use the cituning mani in conjunction with a dp engineering downpipe? There just seems to more options for turbos with the flange on the dp downpipe

7th February 2012, 22:35

almost certainly not - it wont line up under the sump.

Why dont you just make up your own downpipe? The DP one is not especially good, and making your own is not complex. Just buy the flanges you want, along with the bore downpipe you want.

8th February 2012, 08:07

Hi guys, could anyone offer a bit of advise?

I'm currently part way through turbo'ing my VTS and itll be my first turbo petrol. Unfortunately it's going to be a daily driver, as I can't afford to run 2 cars. it's got a t25, omex ecu, de-comp plate. Running around 10-14psi, with ability to switch between them. Standard MA box.

I've not been able to fund forged internals - is this a ticking time bomb on std ones? Would I be able to drive it on the motorway, with it boosting for long periods of time?

What gauges would you suggest I run? Boost and oil temp? A mate runs boost and voltage, but seems rather pointless to me?

8th February 2012, 08:31

Welcome to the forum

You can run standard internals just fine on low boost. 10-14psi isn't low boost though. What you're describing (long periods of on boost - motorway hard driving - is the worst thing you can do for any boosted car, let alone one with standard pistons. So no is really my answer, don't do it. You can drive on the motorway off boost of course - just don't keep it nailed

You'll be much better off getting some forged pistons (don't worry about rods) and then you'll be more confident too.

Regarding gauges - boost is good to have but most importantly is a way to monitor water and oil temps. You haven't said if you have an oil cooler or not? I monitor a lot of things on my car but I'm a geek - really oil pressure, oil and water temp, and boost are the most important.

Anything else just ask - we're a nice bunch here. Mostly - if you avoid moke

8th February 2012, 09:03

Cheers Ross!

Yes I run a mocal oil cooler

Unfortunately, the t25 starts to spoil up at around 1.5-2k revs... Which normally is a good thing, with no lag, but maybe not for any kind of motorway run?

I was thinking 10psi was "low boost" haha - is this not the case? With a switch on the dash to go up to 14psi when it's needed

8th February 2012, 09:15

Oh and I'm running a VTS bottom end (from a 2003) and a jp4 head. What forged pistons would you recommend?
Wossner? Or something else? Can you provide a link by chance - rather new to the whole forged game!

8th February 2012, 09:22

I would suggest woosner yep. Try: http://www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/engin.../prod_279.html

If you think 10psi is more than a lot of standard cars run as max boost (11psi on a Seat Cupra R, 8psi on a Volvo T5R etc). Half a bar would be generally considered low boost - 6-8psi.

On the motorway you're fine if it's a few psi all the time, thats unavoidable - what I interpreted from your post was that you were sitting at 120mph the whole time running 10psi. You'll chow down turbos like that quicksmart

8th February 2012, 09:27

Haha no chance - ill be granny driving on motorways, sitting at 50-60 (which will still probably be boosting around 6ish psi

)

Looks like I'll need to sell a kidney for some forged pistons then! Looking over your website, you don't run wossner? Are there other (ie cheaper!) brands out there that will give me the reliability Im after?

Thanks for the help so far Ross! This forum is far better than others I'm on!

8th February 2012, 09:31

And can you suggest some rod bolts, something I've been considering! And after a mate in a 106 broke a rod after the bolt gave it sounds like a good idea. Learn from others mistakes is cheaper!

8th February 2012, 09:34

Leon cupra R make 13psi standard.. I'd consider nowadays 10psi to be low boost.

Dozens of people have run 14psi on standard internals with no issues. Make of that what you will.. Noone would warranty or guarantee this but from past experience it can be done

8th February 2012, 11:36

arp2000 rod bolts will be plenty. It's what I use on my engine

I run DP pistons (from Greece) as it's what was recommended back in the days when I believed everything that came out of the atspeed bullshit machine. They're fine pistons, but if I chose again, I'd have wossner. To be fair to the DP pistons, I've dropped a valve on one and it's still going strong.

I really doubt that you'll be holding a continuous 6psi at 60-70mph mate unless it's uphill everywhere or you've left your handbrake on! It'll be fine for now - don't stress it, just dont cook it EVERYWHERE. But do enjoy it - keep an eye on the oil/water temps and use a bit of common sense.

8th February 2012, 12:11

I thought you would of went for something than wossner as gmc John was slating them a while back and I thought he was your current guru of use?

8th February 2012, 12:22

Just because you turbo starts spooling early doesn't mean you can't drive off boost at motorway speeds

8th February 2012, 12:36

Cheers for all the tips guys! Glad it'll still be drivable (at normal speeds) on the motorway without going bone up!

Anyone got a guide on changing rod bolts? Is it just a case of taking the sump off?

8th February 2012, 12:39

Regarding the wossner pistons, should I go for standard sized ones, or larger diameter?

8th February 2012, 12:50

As for rod bolts you have to take the pistons out, I tried fitting mine by just taking the sump off but you cant get to them.

As a general rule you want to go slightly oversized so you can make a proper job of the bores.

8th February 2012, 12:56

Be a case of boring them out if I were to go for larger diameter pistons?

Sorry for these stupid questions, it's a big learning curve! But we all start somewhere

8th February 2012, 13:05

Wiseco / DP / Pistal Racing, all the way for piston choice. Iasa also make nice pistons.
wiseco is one we often sell, we have pushed the product to extreme levels and are happy with the quality. same can be said for DP, we are using DP pistons in a few customer engines, at extreme power levels, with no issues.

wossner - we wont sell them, and advise against using them.
our reasons from personal findings: no anti det grooves, no gas expansion groove, sharp edges, quality varies from batch to batch - no consistency with them. sometimes you see them, the crown design is reasonable, other times its horrific. but they are made to a price, and that price if often whoever is offering the cheapest castings at the time. on more than one occasion we find leftover swarf stuck in the ring lands from machining... not very good for a "precision" product imo, so not something we are able to recommend.

- colin.

8th February 2012, 15:18

Does anyone know if its possible to run a oil cooler sandwich plate and a small oil filter with a dp mani/downpipe?

Also the screw to bolt into the engine as the one i have is too small by looks of it, where can i get the correct one from to fit?

8th February 2012, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Does anyone know if its possible to run a oil cooler sandwich plate and a small oil filter with a dp mani/downpipe?

Also the screw to bolt into the engine as the one i have is too small by looks of it, where can i get the correct one from to fit?

no it's not. You can just about get a small filter in there without the sandwich plate. With the plate the filter touches the manifold. Get a remote filter kit as part of your hosework for the oil cooler - it doesn't add much to the cost and it's easy to fit.

8th February 2012, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by 106TURBO

I thought you would of went for something than wossner as gmc John was slating them a while back and I thought he was your current guru of use?

I have never slated woosner pistons ,yes i have had my own shape of piston made by wossner that was for other reasons,but over the years i have had many different shapes made by omega , cosworth ,wossner ,dp, and JE.

dp pistons I had wrist pins break in the middle and they would doing nothing ,so if i were to slag a piston maker it would be Dp.
i have had JE pistons where they did not make them with specified clearance I aked for which caused problems ,but you don,t see me slagging them on the forums .
I can safely say i have detroyed probably every make of piston ever made for a saxo at some point and the differences bewtween them is not that much to make the difference to reliability when fitted with correctly gapped rings
there is no piston maker that will supplypistons you rings perfectly gapped -ready to drop in the bore-its impossible as bores will be diferent due to age and usage,you must check and make them correct
If i were to pick a "best " piston maker it would be Omega ,but their long delvery times and needing to but 10sets to get a good price is what made me stop stocking omega and move over to wossner .
but if you want omega we can still supply
the saxo engine market is a budget sensitve market and as such wossner fit in there well.

8th February 2012, 15:26

you should run a remote oil filter and oil cooler kit. not sure if it would be tight on the dp gear. look at some google pics for a better idea.

thread size can be found in the stickys iirc. and should be available from ebay

8th February 2012, 15:50

[QUOTE=dannygti;5800897]Leon cupra R make 13psi standard.. I'd consider nowadays 10psi to be low boost.

Dozens of people have run 14psi on standard internals with no issues. Make of that what you will.. Noone would warranty or guarantee this but from past experience it can be done[/QUOT]
Leon will have either forged pistons as std and they will be totally dif design to a non boosted piston with different size rings and crown thickness etc

this is the main reason that you fit forged pistons , made from different material ,different design ,differnt piston rings and stronger crowns .
I laugh to myself when i see people getting all wound up about comp ratios and fitting decomp plates etc ,when its not the answer .
to the basic problem .
I am quite sure with CORRECT ecu mods /ecu system you can run 7 psi on std comp ratio + std pistons with a turbo
we have done it many times with s/c cars ,so if turbo,s are a problem then it must be down to the way they are set -up and not comp ratio,or inlet temps are too high and the ecu is not compensating for the temp changes in ign + fuelling settings
eventualy they will fail ,due to the design issues .
making it low comp is not addressing the problem an just makes it dull when off boost,
it is just a bodge up to get round fitting proper ecu system and mapping it correctly for the boost level chosen.
and as for decomp plates --waste of money -just fit multiple mls h/gaskets done it maytimes with never a failure ,if you must use std pistons and want to lower the comp.
same goes for ARP h/bolts and nuts and using copper gaskets --the engine was designed to run strech bolts and ovetightening ,which is what you are doing with studs + nuts,as it does not allow for the expansion of the head when hot just stresses the block,and its a weak enough block to start with
I can hear the disbelief --ok then check your cam belt when cold + then when hot and see how much it tightens --that the head expanding ,which is why you use strech bolts to allow this to happen with overstressing the head fixing threads (the block) and to keep same tension on h/gasker when it cools down
its not as though you are running 4bar of boost +nitrous

8th February 2012, 16:12

John, you don't use stretch bolts to allow for the head expanding, ALL bolts/studs stretch this is what gives then their clamping force. A bolt will stretch and go back to it's original length thousands of times unless you yield it. The reason they give you a torque figure then an angle ie 265deg is so you yield the bolt but don't break it. The bolt has it's maximum clamping force after it's yielded but before it snaps.
Arp bolts will be made of a different material (obv) and the MOST important part of the ARP bolt kit is the washers and the lubricant, this allows more clamping force (due to grip length changed by the washers) and the lubricant helps put in the same load at a lower torque. Due to this you don't have to yield the bolt hence being able to re use them.

8th February 2012, 17:01

PlUs point of decomp is that it's re useable, head gaskets aren't, no one plans to have the head off time and time again,

But at least if you spend out on a decomp then you dont have to waste multiple gaskets every time you take the head off

8th February 2012, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

PlUs point of decomp is that it's re useable, head gaskets aren't, no one plans to have the head off time and time again,

But at least if you spend out on a decomp then you dont have to waste multiple gaskets every time you take the head off

Equally a decomp is what? £250? You'd be replacing a single gasket every time you had the head off with a decomp plate anyway... so by that logic you'd need to have the head off 5+ times for a decomp to be more cost effective...

8th February 2012, 17:27

Decomp plate is just over £100 if you use ferriday engineering

8th February 2012, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

no it's not. You can just about get a small filter in there without the sandwich plate. With the plate the filter touches the manifold. Get a remote filter kit as part of your hosework for the oil cooler - it doesn't add much to the cost and it's easy to fit.

Ok, I do plan on going for a remote filter seup just wasnt sure if it fitted or not.

Also where can a water feed be ran from to a turbo? Am i right that i have seen people use the small hose coming out of the side of the head thats comes forward? put a t peice into that and then a return into bottom radiator hose?

8th February 2012, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Also where can a water feed be ran from to a turbo? Am i right that i have seen people use the small hose coming out of the side of the head thats comes forward? put a t peice into that and then a return into bottom radiator hose?

Most I've seen (and my old setup) T into the heater matrix pipework, in and out. Benefits include faster heater warmup (colder months).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Decomp plate is just over £100 if you use ferriday engineering

So just 2 head changes then