Standalone options

31st October 2011, 20:52

My fueling is poo (to lean) and thinking bodies in the future so looking at ECU options.

What are people opinions on whats available?
Price, Ease of installation, features etc?

For a 3 plug S.

31st October 2011, 20:58

The 3 plug predator is now available....thats easiest option and cheapest as it doesnt need a custom loom.

Other options of course are omex, dta etc etc

Quite a few threads on this topic so could be worth having a search dude.

31st October 2011, 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by J222JRA

The 3 plug predator is now available....thats easiest option and cheapest as it doesnt need a custom loom.

Since when James?

31st October 2011, 20:59

Sorry that sounded really arsey James... I mean... when was it released because I've been waiting fockin ages for these bastard things to appear.

31st October 2011, 21:06

Andy has started a group buy, but just doesn't seem to be much interest atm

In the same boat as you, been eagerly waiting years for the 3 plug version.

31st October 2011, 21:22

i think alot of the reason is what ads posted tbh, very few ppl acutally know its done..

31st October 2011, 21:23

Yeah it's here!

I'm just not advertising it like a crazy-person

It works though

Alex, I have to write you a PM reply

A

31st October 2011, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry123

Sorry that sounded really arsey James... I mean... when was it released because I've been waiting fockin ages for these bastard things to appear.

Since about 6 weeks ago Barry

2nd November 2011, 14:48

Only just seen this... awesome. Surprised at the lack of awareness being made about it though!?!?!

Missed the group buy, but hey ho, right January purchase here I come.

2nd November 2011, 15:04

what's your budget?

2nd November 2011, 16:10

Don't worry about the deadline, it's the first lot of them being made there's a fair amount of flexibility when people wanna jump in

2nd November 2011, 21:16

I need this, Just want to finally sort fueling. Can leave me free to think about what to do next

2nd November 2011, 22:14

I'm going Pred Alex, had a look a spec of the 3-plug earlier and quite frankly, it's amazing given the cost. Plus I don't have to rip up the loom and bugger about with all that.

+ the thread in which, John, Martin, Sandy & Andy were discussing ECU's pretty much sold the pred on that too.

2nd November 2011, 22:22

Deffo my choice, Hopefully Andy has a few left.

5th November 2011, 20:30

I had a predator 1 plug.
Got rid of it after 2 and a half weeks.

5th November 2011, 20:32

Why exactly did you get rid of it mate? You wrote a good review about it too?

5th November 2011, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosVT

Why exactly did you get rid of it mate? You wrote a good review about it too?

Don't really want to say too much on the forum mate as I no Andy does this as a business but I wouldn't go down this route again and was glad to have got rid.

5th November 2011, 20:39

Ah right, that's a shame really mate as a lot of people on here have cams and even bodies running with a predator and have had top results from it.

5th November 2011, 20:50

I'd like to know too really! Got positive vibes on the day, "runs much better than standard ECU", all that, got messages after the drive home saying it was really good, then a duff rolling road reading seems to have caused concern.

The car was a bit smoky on the day, but no horrible noises, and it seemed to pull really well.

It had a £50 road map put on, which is normally pretty close to full potential, and I offered to help remotely as much as is needed.

I think if Lee wants to feedback negatively he is more than welcome to, as I don't really know what the problem is either! And I was willing to help out to sort it

Good luck with whatever direction you go in future Lee

Kind regards

Andy

5th November 2011, 20:57

My mechanic tried to do a diagnostic and the predator wouldn't allow him to do this.
Now I've got my standard Ecu back on the car feels no different from when predator was on and my mechanic as looked at the car and my cylinder head etc are fine.
Im going to get the car rolling roaded at the same place with my standard Ecu on and see what the figures ate like compared to before.
As said they told me fuelling was too rich on bottom and too weak on top due to mapping.

5th November 2011, 21:04

Your mechanic try to plug a ecu reader on the pred? Did you really think that would work?

Mate it not the ecu that letting your car down, it just need the cam timing tweaked on a dyno and few hours mapping.

5th November 2011, 21:10

And Andy could of easily sort that fueling out, could us the data logging and then Andy can tweek the map for now to get a better feuling.

But a few hours on the dyno and cam timing tweak will help you the most.

5th November 2011, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

Your mechanic try to plug a ecu reader on the pred? Did you really think that would work?

Mate it not the ecu that letting your car down, it just need the cam timing tweaked on a dyno and few hours mapping.

No mate I took the pred off any put my standard Ecu on and my mechanic did a diagnostic and checked the car over as Andy said I should be looming at my cylinder head etc and there fine not leaking or worn.

5th November 2011, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

My mechanic tried to do a diagnostic and the predator wouldn't allow him to do this.
Now I've got my standard Ecu back on the car feels no different from when predator was on and my mechanic as looked at the car and my cylinder head etc are fine.
Im going to get the car rolling roaded at the same place with my standard Ecu on and see what the figures ate like compared to before.
As said they told me fuelling was too rich on bottom and too weak on top due to mapping.

Not what you said here you said you try to diagnostic the pred.

5th November 2011, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

Not what you said here you said you try to diagnostic the pred.

No he tried to do a diagnostic on the car but couldn't do it with the pred on the car.
Bit of advice if your having a car mapped and cam timing set up this has to be done while the car is been rolling roaded.
Andy can't offer that.

5th November 2011, 21:48

That what I been telling you for sometime now since your last thread, so why are you telling me that?

It nothing to do with the ecu though the ecu will do a very good job just need the final tweaks done on a dyno so you can see what going on with power/torque in relation to the cam timing.

So you did try diagnostic the engine with the pred ecu on then?

5th November 2011, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

That what I been telling you for sometime now since your last thread, so why are you telling me that?

It nothing to do with the ecu though the ecu will do a very good job just need the final tweaks done on a dyno so you can see what going on with power/torque in relation to the cam timing.

So you did try diagnostic the engine with the pred ecu on then?

Your misunderstanding me Andy, when I told Andy the fuelling was all over the place he told me he would be more concerned about checking my cylinder head etc so I booked it in with my mechanic so he could investigate this and he was going to check all my sensors etc but he couldn't do it with the pred on as it wasn't giving him any readings on is tester, may I say he did not plug this into the predator.
I have spoken to at least 15 garages / tuners this week and as soon as I mention the pred they can't wait to get off the phone, no one wants to touch them and everyone as told me the first mistake I made was buying one.
Now my standard Ecu is on my mechanic as checked it over and the cylinder head is not leaking not worn and all my sensors are fine.
This is my experience with the pred and maybe I should have done more research before I got it but so many people recommended them but who nows maybe they recommended it cos they don't want to knock it and let on they wasted 550.09 on it, who knows, this is just my experience with it.

5th November 2011, 22:07

I have one and northampton motor sport map it.

And so he did try and read a standalone ecu with a diagnostic computer? Well of course the diagnostic computer will read the standard ecu as that what the ecu dose but a standalone your not going to get that.

I know many places that will map the ms software,

5th November 2011, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

I have one and northampton motor sport map it.

And so he did try and read a standalone ecu with a diagnostic computer? Well of course the diagnostic computer will read the standard ecu as that what the ecu dose but a standalone your not going to get that.

I know many places that will map the ms software,

Well I've phoned loads and no one will touch it that's why I got rid of it even more so after the rolling road results.
I will be taking the car back to be RR with my standard Ecu, think it will be interesting to compare the results.

5th November 2011, 22:11

Personally if i was running the predator i would book the car in somewhere with a dyno and pay Andy to attend as im sure he can get the best results from the ecu.

5th November 2011, 22:13

I'm sorry you had a bad time Lee, and are disappointed, I am concerned though, that you're putting too many eggs in the ECU's basket in terms of getting power from your engine

Good luck and I hope you get the setup you want in the future

Andy

5th November 2011, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by J222JRA

Personally if i was running the predator i would book the car in somewhere with a dyno and pay Andy to attend as im sure he can get the best results from the ecu.

See what your saying mate but wouldn't drive back to Southampton again where Andy lives from Doncaster and pay another 80.00 in fuel a sell as rolling road when I payed out 550.00 for the pred but see where your cooming from.

5th November 2011, 22:15

In all fairness with such a mild spec engine peak figures aren't going to be improved upon that much, doesn't matter if your using megasquirt or motec

The real reason for these standalone ecus it to give you the option for further tuning like throttle bodies or turbochargers etc

5th November 2011, 22:17

All I'm saying is my fuelling was all over the place and I'm sure if you look at the pictures I put up from the rolling road you will see yourselves.

5th November 2011, 22:20

Yer and that could of been fix with a few tweaks on the map to bring it in line.

5th November 2011, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

All I'm saying is my fuelling was all over the place and I'm sure if you look at the pictures I put up from the rolling road you will see yourselves.

Then the issue is with the map, not the ECU.

5th November 2011, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndySAXO

Yer and that could of been fix with a few tweaks on the map to bring it in line.

As said I'm going chip wizards for a map doing.
My mate had is gti there for re mapping and cam timing set up and Wayne had him there for 9 hours and wouldn't let him leave until he was happy with it.

5th November 2011, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeumH

Then the issue is with the map, not the ECU.

It was down to the map yes someone seems to understand.

5th November 2011, 22:32

nightmare, i just sold one for 250quid, full remap off wayne at chipwizards, c2 vts head, cat cams 708 which are the same duration as the ph3 newmans do, closed filter, manifold, decat and a full system, with a readout of 163bhp single plug mk1 vts

tbh rolling road is always the best for tweeking and sorting out fueling etc, but andy does a good job from what i hav seen on here and other forums, shame you didnt try and iron things out, but you have to be happy with what your using, andy seems to appriciate your opinion so im sure all is well.

cant make everyone happy other wise we would be living in a perfect world

and all would be hunky dory lol

5th November 2011, 22:33

If people are saying this was down to the map as I've said then why pay another 50.00 ontop of the 500.00 for the pred if the maps not going to be set up properly to then have to take it to someone else to pay them to do this and in my case I couldn't find one person that would go near it or work with it.

5th November 2011, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by boz

nightmare, i just sold one for 250quid, full remap off wayne at chipwizards, c2 vts head, cat cams 708 which are the same duration as the ph3 newmans do, closed filter, manifold, decat and a full system, with a readout of 163bhp single plug mk1 vts

tbh rolling road is always the best for tweeking and sorting out fueling etc, but andy does a good job from what i hav seen on here and other forums, shame you didnt try and iron things out, but you have to be happy with what your using, andy seems to appriciate your opinion so im sure all is well.

cant make everyone happy other wise we would be living in a perfect world

and all would be hunky dory lol

Wish I knew mate I would have snapped that up off you.

5th November 2011, 23:31

all im saying is andy done testing on my car.. fueling all over the place ran like a bag of nails after a 1 hours with him and the pred the engine was spot on. The predator is bang on for buck if i was to go back to french shite i would get one.. Andy make one for GTT

6th November 2011, 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

All I'm saying is my fuelling was all over the place and I'm sure if you look at the pictures I put up from the rolling road you will see yourselves.

And Andy offered to adjust the map after the disappointing RR figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

It was down to the map yes someone seems to understand.

Which Andy offered to adjust after the disappointing RR figure... sounds to me like you jumped the gun a bit here - expecting miracles from the initial base map and then blaming the ecu. Little bit of patience would have saved you the loss of buying and then selling the pred, along with the cost of getting you car mapped by chipwizards.

Enjoy Chipwizards magic 160 hp RR though

6th November 2011, 08:58

Are you not the guy that started this thread asking about a standalone and wich one therefore you no very little. As said Andy did offer to adjust the fueling but still wouldn't have been 100 percent right.
I spent around an hour driving the car with Andy in it doing the map.
As I've said through out the thread no one would touch my car with the pred on.
IMO the only way to get this set up properly is to take Andy to a rolling road to set this up properly while it's been RR.
As I've said I've had a shitty experience with it maybe some of you haven't but I did that's why I got rid.
As for the comment about chip wizards my mate took is gti with same mods as me but he has bodies and he achieved 161.1 bhp at the fly. That is a accurate figure to me.

6th November 2011, 10:44

Serious question here: you made 108bhp wheels at that dyno, which (according to accepted maths, (108+10)/0.9 gives you 131bhp at the flywheel.

If you moved the AFR from 14.1 to 13.1 (bearing in mind 14.1 *by definition* means there is unburnt fuel left over) how much power do you think you would make?

The engine wasn't consuming the fuel it has in there completely. I understand the richer bottom part of the map where 12.5:1 starts to 'slow' the burn requiring more ignition timing or a leaner mixture, but up the top is where the 108bhp is, I'm struggling to see where it gets better by mapping.

Moving cam timing on the dyno, yes, we've seen cars swing 10-15bhp on them, but I'm concerned that you're looking at an AFR curve and thinking there must be 20bhp between 14:1 AFR and 13:1 AFR and there just isn't

6th November 2011, 11:01

What was the reason these 15 tuners gave you about not liking the pred while almost hanging up on you?

6th November 2011, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

What was the reason these 15 tuners gave you about not liking the pred while almost hanging up on you?

I asked them why and there reply was there shit and cars should not be mapped with someone sat in the car mapping it while it's been driven on the road and not on the rollers.
As said if something fitted to your car is causing problems with the fuel mixture or anything else in that matter you try and either sort the problem wich I tried and no one would entertain it or you take it off like I did, I'm just lucky I managed to get rid of it and not end up been stuck with it after paying 550.00 and then having to pay another load of cash to get my standard Ecu mapped.

6th November 2011, 11:22

As far as im aware the predator uses tunerstudio which is pretty much the standard for megasquirt, so definatly not "shit". Id name and shame these tuner's if they dont know how to use tunerstudio.

6th November 2011, 11:24

I had my quiksilver turbo mapped by Andy with a predator didn't have any problems, graph as below was smooth as you would want aswell, rr guys commented they be hard pushed to get a 10bhp max from a further rr tune and be lucky to see it better

not read through the thread but I had a proper 2.5hr road mapping session with Andy to get the above, don't know what the problems are but just speaking from personal experience I've never had a problem

6th November 2011, 11:38

You say yours was mapped in 2.5 hours mine was done in less than an hour, this makes me wonder.
My problem was with the fuel mixture so can't have been set up properly if my fuel is too rich on the bottom end and too weak on the top, therefore with my fuel been too weak at the top my graph showed it started to die right down.

6th November 2011, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

So after we get back the Predators is fitted and mapped and the car is done.
So on the way back it was time to see what this was capable of lol.
And all i can say guys is this is by far the best money ive spent on my gti, the car just pulls of and flies through the rpm and now the rpm as been raised its alot more fun and bthe power is unreal.
No flat spots, and the torque is there ready for when you want to put your foot down and overtake etc.

Lee

sad to hear of your problems, but the above statement confuses me. You can be happy with the car and smiling one day and say its much better then decide its not the following day because of the RR. The figures are dissapointing from how you look. But what do figures matter if you said yourself its is much more fun smooth and pulls better.
Seems like your contradicting yourself because you had a bad set of results. You was happy with the car until you started bringing pub figures into it, and that your can not argue with.

Its also unfair to pull Andy down on a thread like this, especially if your trying to ruin custom for him by saying it was a waste of money. You WAS happy with the item and you have even said Andy was willing to help you out! Distance is a problem yes but if he is giving good customer service and was 'trying' to help you can't pull him down on this.

6th November 2011, 13:42

As I said at the beginning of the thread Matt I wasn't going to post anything to knock Andy and he said he didn't mind me posting what I thought.
What I'm saying mate is if I pay for something no matter what it is I expect it to be right so if I'm spending 550.00 on the pred I expect it to do what it's suppose to do.
By all means if anyone disagrees then go get one but mine was not mapped properly and I payed for it to be mapped.
Clearly my fuel mix was fucked up due to the map and ye it was great when I got it but after I found out it was causing problems with my fuel then that changed my opinion.

6th November 2011, 13:47

im running a predator on a no noncense supercharged saxo. i went for an initial road map with andy to get her running for run in period and i have to say everything is spot on.
tomorrow she is going to a rolling road which is local and they are happy to map it using the tuner studio software,
the ecu is perfect for what it is intended for and is even prooving to be good on more power boosted saxos,

i have had this ecu now for a good 3 years, and i got it wen i was initially running just 708s raceland mani magnex exhaust and enclosed filter

this was from just a road map, the ecu is fine, and u cant judge the ecu by the map really.

6th November 2011, 13:50

So you clearly had it mapped properly then mine was not mapped properly and as I keep saying WAS fUCKING MY FUEl MIX UP!!!

6th November 2011, 13:58

why didnt u just get it mapped again then??????

6th November 2011, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

So you clearly had it mapped properly then mine was not mapped properly and as I keep saying WAS fUCKING MY FUEl MIX UP!!!

yes so you keep saying, but this is a standalone ecu thread. NOT a map thread.
there is nothing wrong with the ecu its self.
and there are plenty of people rr places that will map it.

6th November 2011, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by adzvtr

yes so you keep saying, but this is a standalone ecu thread. NOT a map thread.
there is nothing wrong with the ecu its self.
and there are plenty of people rr places that will map it.

Right some of you guys are not getting what I'm saying here so I will repeat it I payed Andy to map it and it was clearly not mapped properly due to the fuel mix. It's not rocket science to understand and if your having trouble understanding that then don't post as you clearly are not with it.
And im not spending 550 and then paying sone else else to map it.

6th November 2011, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by adzvtr

yes so you keep saying, but this is a standalone ecu thread. NOT a map thread.
there is nothing wrong with the ecu its self.
and there are plenty of people rr places that will map it.

Best post so far. You can't slate the Pred on this thread because you have had a so called bad map.
If your car was running better with a mapped pred with bad fuel mix, imagine what it could of been like before on your standard ecu. You said it yourself the Pred made it run better!

Am not saying your in the wrong Lee, you pay your cash you want the best results you can get with a good map. Just seems that within a week you have decided to ditch the ecu because of the map running not so well due to a RR. I know for a fact there are tuners out there who will touch the Pred ecu, because i looked into it. Once place in Leeds and one in Lincoln, and another in Chesterfield there are places out there and non of them said they wouldn't touch it or bad things. Like people say on here mappers prefer to use their own software and if they can sell you a new ecu they will try it. I don't know how many Pred ecu's are about, but to ring up 15 difference places and all them say nope, waste of cash seems abit far fetched.

Its your cash and you can do what ever you want with it for you car etc. Least the ecu had some resale value so you didn't lose out on too much cash really.

6th November 2011, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

And im not spending 550 and then paying sone else else to map it.

You would have to do this with a new standalone ecu am guessing

6th November 2011, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ05LLY

You would have to do this with a new standalone ecu am guessing

Correct mate but as soon as I've got the bodies the map will be the last thing I will be doing to the car so I will just be paying for it mapped once.

6th November 2011, 14:17

As said I've had a shit experience with it therefore I'm entitled to tell people about my experience with it as this is an open forum and should be mentioned IMO.

6th November 2011, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

Are you not the guy that started this thread asking about a standalone and wich one therefore you no very little.

Nope, that was Alex dude. I'm of the camp 'Predator or nothing', being able to return the car to standard is more important to me than out and out tuning capabilities - I'd like to think I know a bit about mapping, since I've mapped a Motec (for formula student car) for the last 2 years, but I'm no way professing to being even close to an expert.

I'm honestly not having a go, but I am intrigued as to how you're ditching the pred so quickly that's all and I'm concerned you're doing it with the wrong mind set. Firstly you need to know the limits of RM (Road Mapping) and RR maps - You're never going to be able to obtain the fine tuning of RR maps using the road. Road does have it's benefits though, the engine is operating in is actual environment, on an RR it isn't and this can produce anomalies if the mapper isn't careful. So there's pluses and minuses for both - but nothing inherently wrong with RM. But if you're paying £5xx for something I'd hope you had researched accordingly.

I do think you've jumped the gun a bit and come to the conclusion that you're 108 wheel figure is purely down to the ecu/map. Where you've gone wrong is not having a RR beforehand to know what the output was before.
I'm going to activate detective mode here and make a suggestion based on what I've read - please correct if wrong as do skim read some longer posts...
Andy notes that the car is a 'bit smokey' prior to install and mapping.
After install and map, you say

Quote:

And all i can say guys is this is by far the best money ive spent on my gti, the car just pulls of and flies through the rpm and now the rpm as been raised its alot more fun and bthe power is unreal.
No flat spots, and the torque is there ready for when you want to put your foot down and overtake etc.

A few weeks later you get a 108 wheel figure.
Andy offers to correct based on latest available info regarding AFR values.
You don't take up this offer and decide to sell the pred.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but this apparent improved transformation of the engine and a wheel figure of 108 suggests to me there's something not right with the engine in the first place, either it's chuffed and/or cam timing is out?
A rolling road prior to the install would confirm this... in fact, you've stuck the OE ecu back on yeah? Go RR it - that'll confirm whether the engine is at fault or the mapping (although where you expect to find 20 hp from a change in the AFR is beyond me)

Furthermore, you don't even take up the offer Andy's given (assuming for free) to correct the fuelling, which is bizarre. Even if it didn't correct your problems it was still worth pursuing this route first surely before selling up???

Now it sounds as though I'm slagging you off and I'm certainly not but I'm keen to see how you've come to your conclusions...

6th November 2011, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ05LLY

You would have to do this with a new standalone ecu am guessing

Expect you've spend a grand, and then have it mapped.

6th November 2011, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

As said I've had a shit experience with it therefore I'm entitled to tell people about my experience with it as this is an open forum and should be mentioned IMO.

Totally happy with that, just I don't think your reasons are entirely valid - unless proved otherwise.

Go RR it with the OE ECU, clear this up once and for all.

6th November 2011, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry123

Totally happy with that, just I don't think your reasons are entirely valid - unless proved otherwise.

Go RR it with the OE ECU, clear this up once and for all.

You mentioned my cam timing could also not be set up correctly wich I've heard a lot of people say but I also payed Andy to do this for me so clearly if the cam timing is out then the map and the cam timing clearly hasn't been set up correctly.
As I said you pay 500 for the pred without the map then you have to go and pay x amount of money to some one else to map it for you so this is adding up even more in price.
As I said after hearingsdo many bad things off many people I knew I should get rid of it.
Plus I did a 3 and a half hour trip each way so Andy could set this up and it obviously was a wasted journey.
As I said mate if I pay for something I expect it to bee 100 percent.

6th November 2011, 14:43

I'm happy to see people offer up both positive and negative opinions on products and service, after all no part is going to be best for everyone. For people considering a pred it gives both sides of the story.

I personally have a pred mapped by Andy on a similar setup to yourself and am happy with it. I have had andy adjust my cam timing also, By his own asmission it won't be accurately done but its a dam sight better than it was.

I've not had the car on a dyno, but I was never after peak power. Just a fun driving street car. As has been said before in this thread your never going to squeeze every last HP out of a engine on a street map, but i fail to see how a dodgy map can loose 20bhp. Il keep a eye on this as i will be interested to see what happens when its mapped by Wayne.

6th November 2011, 14:43

And yes I'm sure if I do get the car RR at the same place then I'm sure there will be a difference due to the fact that my standard Ecu is on the car and my fuel mix will be spot on therefore won't die down on the graphs.

Maybe you guys should look at my thread and you will see the fuelling shown in the results and then tell me if that looks good to you.

6th November 2011, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicked-vtr

I'm happy to see people offer up both positive and negative opinions on products and service, after all no part is gointo be best for everyone. For people considering a pred it gives both sides of the story.

I personally have a pred mapped by Andy on a similar setup to yourself and am happy with it. I have had andy adjust my cam timing also, Bt his own asmission it won't be accurately done but its a dam sight better than it was.

Exactly maybe I was the 1 percent out of the 100 that had it done that didn't have it set up properly and was not happy with it.
As said I was lucky to get rid of it as quick as I did so no harm done but won't stop me sharing my experience with this.

6th November 2011, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

And yes I'm sure if I do get the car RR at the same place then I'm sure there will be a difference due to the fact that my standard Ecu is on the car and my fuel mix will be spot on therefore won't die down on the graphs.

Maybe you guys should look at my thread and you will see the fuelling shown in the results and then tell me if that looks good to you.

Your fuelling can not be correct on standard ecu for ph3 cams. As you said it cuts out before on standard ecu...... you have to accept with changing cams the air/fuel mix changed. Your OEM ecu is set fine for standard cams, not uprated.

6th November 2011, 14:49

with any standalone you pay for the ecu, then x amount for it to be mapped.
but most other ecus will also incure loom expenses,

to the op

so the predator is a very good ecu. for its price.
and there are many people running predators on here with no problems, and to andys defence any problems that have occured he has always done his best to make right, his after sales help is second to none.
lee has had a bad experience and then not taken on this help due to listening to people who ( no offence) probably have no idea or hands on experience with this ecu.
and have heard through the grape vine so to speak.

6th November 2011, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

You mentioned my cam timing could also not be set up correctly wich I've heard a lot of people say but I also payed Andy to do this for me so clearly if the cam timing is out then the map and the cam timing clearly hasn't been set up correctly.
As I said you pay 500 for the pred without the map then you have to go and pay x amount of money to some one else to map it for you so this is adding up even more in price.
As I said after hearingsdo many bad things off many people I knew I should get rid of it.
Plus I did a 3 and a half hour trip each way so Andy could set this up and it obviously was a wasted journey.
As I said mate if I pay for something I expect it to bee 100 percent.

That's fair enough dude, but I would point you to researching more thoroughly. RM is not perfect - I do believe Andy offers to map on RR though? Expecting to pay £550 and believe that there was no other cost involved to get an optimised setting is possibly a little naive. Cam timing is interesting, I'll leave that to Andy.

Can you reference the bad reports from others?

Expecting 100% from an unknown engine is a little bit wishful - I'm still siding with a dodgy engine on this. I would turn it around and say 'If you're expecting 100% be prepared to pay accordingly' - remember you're getting an ECU for the price of a map at the end of the day. How can you expect 100% from an engine you know nothing about?

6th November 2011, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

And yes I'm sure if I do get the car RR at the same place then I'm sure there will be a difference due to the fact that my standard Ecu is on the car and my fuel mix will be spot on therefore won't die down on the graphs.

Maybe you guys should look at my thread and you will see the fuelling shown in the results and then tell me if that looks good to you.

This is negating the fact that you said

Quote:

And all i can say guys is this is by far the best money ive spent on my gti, the car just pulls of and flies through the rpm and now the rpm as been raised its alot more fun and bthe power is unreal.
No flat spots, and the torque is there ready for when you want to put your foot down and overtake etc.

And this is what I don't get. You're getting hung up on the AFR yet prior to this the car 'just pulls of and flies through the rpm... bthe power is unreal'.

Forgive me for probing here, essentially I'm researching at the end of the day. Although I've made my mind up I still want to know why people are happy and unhappy about the pred, but that involves me being critical about why people came to conclusions they did.

6th November 2011, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry123

That's fair enough dude, but I would point you to researching more thoroughly. RM is not perfect - I do believe Andy offers to map on RR though? Expecting to pay £550 and believe that there was no other cost involved to get an optimised setting is possibly a little naive. Cam timing is interesting, I'll leave that to Andy.

Can you reference the bad reports from others?

Expecting 100% from an unknown engine is a little bit wishful - I'm still siding with a dodgy engine on this. I would turn it around and say 'If you're expecting 100% be prepared to pay accordingly' - remember you're getting an ECU for the price of a map at the end of the day. How can you expect 100% from an engine you know nothing about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by adzvtr

with any standalone you pay for the ecu, then x amount for it to be mapped.
but most other ecus will also incure loom expenses,

to the op

so the predator is a very good ecu. for its price.
and there are many people running predators on here with no problems, and to andys defence any problems that have occured he has always done his best to make right, his after sales help is second to none.
lee has had a bad experience and then not taken on this help due to listening to people who ( no offence) probably have no idea or hands on experience with this ecu.
and have heard through the grape vine so to speak.

What would your opinion be if I told out of all the companies I spoke to one of them was Ricky P.

6th November 2011, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry123

That's fair enough dude, but I would point you to researching more thoroughly. RM is not perfect - I do believe Andy offers to map on RR though? Expecting to pay £550 and believe that there was no other cost involved to get an optimised setting is possibly a little naive. Cam timing is interesting, I'll leave that to Andy.

Can you reference the bad reports from others?

Expecting 100% from an unknown engine is a little bit wishful - I'm still siding with a dodgy engine on this. I would turn it around and say 'If you're expecting 100% be prepared to pay accordingly' - remember you're getting an ECU for the price of a map at the end of the day. How can you expect 100% from an engine you know nothing about?

Nothing wrong with my engine as said I've had it checked as well as cylinder head etc.

6th November 2011, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ05LLY

Your fuelling can not be correct on standard ecu for ph3 cams. As you said it cuts out before on standard ecu...... you have to accept with changing cams the air/fuel mix changed. Your OEM ecu is set fine for standard cams, not uprated.

Hasn't cut out since Adz adjusted the throttle cable Matt.

6th November 2011, 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

What would your opinion be if I told out of all the companies I spoke to one of them was Ricky P.

In what respect dude? I don't understand what you mean. As in RickyP said the pred was junk? Or have I got my wires crossed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

Nothing wrong with my engine as said I've had it checked as well as cylinder head etc.

RR just to confirm though?

and yet...

Quote:

And all i can say guys is this is by far the best money ive spent on my gti, the car just pulls of and flies through the rpm and now the rpm as been raised its alot more fun and bthe power is unreal.
No flat spots, and the torque is there ready for when you want to put your foot down and overtake etc.

How was the cylinder head checked? Pressure test? Visual? Valves, Headers, Cams checked etc?
Air filter clean?
yada yada

6th November 2011, 15:05

Think I've said enough through out the thread now do my opinions and experience has been mentioned enough now so that's enough for me.
The fact that Andy said i should be looking at my cylinder head etc clearly told me he was trying to pass on the blame due to a poor map IMO.
If you guys wanna get one then get one my only advice is save your 50.00 and don't pay Andy to map it for you as it could end up like mine did with the fuel.

6th November 2011, 15:06

meh, it was just getting interesting too.

6th November 2011, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry123

In what respect dude? I don't understand what you mean. As in RickyP said the pred was junk? Or have I got my wires crossed?

RR just to confirm though?

and yet...

How was the cylinder head checked? Pressure test? Visual? Valves, Headers, Cams checked etc?
Air filter clean?
yada yada

Ricky was probably the politest regarding this compared to everyone else and said that was my first mistake buying it etc.

6th November 2011, 15:08

Did he elaborate on why dude?

6th November 2011, 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

What would your opinion be if I told out of all the companies I spoke to one of them was Ricky P.

my opinion doesnt change m8,
i personally think the standard ecu on a 5th injector setup for a charged car isnt the best way to go, but he runs his like that mapped by chip wizards.

everyone has there personal preferences, it doesnt mean that the product is bad.

im not dissputing uve had issues with ur map, all i am saying is the ecu isnt the problem with ur issues,
the ecu is fine the problem is with the map.
the car didnt make the power u were expecting, down to a reason other people have told you, how ever you have said the car felt better than ever.
but you will be happy with the 155bhp you get at chipwizards gauranteed.

6th November 2011, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry123

Did he elaborate on why dude?

To be honest mate I've got my view across and there's too many people commenting on this when they clearly haven't had one themselves, ye they've done the research but not actually had one, I had one so in that case I've actually experienced it.
Anyway as said mate I've said all I've got to say let other people carry it on if they please.

6th November 2011, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

To be honest mate I've got my view across and there's too many people commenting on this when they clearly haven't had one themselves, ye they've done the research but not actually had one, I had one so in that case I've actually experienced it.
Anyway as said mate I've said all I've got to say let other people carry it on if they please.

oakie dokie.

6th November 2011, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry123

Did he elaborate on why dude?

Because he likes to send people to chip wizards....

Ricky doesn't map cars, he is just in with Wayne at chip wizards. They look after each other giving each other business

My opinion, take from that what you want

6th November 2011, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJ05LLY

Because he likes to send people to chip wizards....

Ricky doesn't map cars, he is just in with Wayne at chip wizards. They look after each other giving each other business

My opinion, take from that what you want

And that's true but makes no difference to me Ricky even told me if he books my car in with Wayne it will be 450 instead of 550 so saves me money I can't complain.

6th November 2011, 15:17

I will point out wayne at chipwizards doesn't have a problem mapping any ms based system he has done so for years without a problem and doesnt mind it compared to some of the supposedly superior ecus out there.

I am talking from personal experience here myself my predator was mapped fine without a problem on my old turbo setup had a wideband in there aswell which I don't know how much it was helping but my afrs etc were pretty much spot on confirmed by the rolling road.

All I can say to any looking at a standalone ecu for a single plug 16v/furio/quiky if your engine spec is relatively mild and you don't want to go chopping up looms etc then the predator is fine does pretty much everything most people want no problem. With mapping if you really don't want it road mapped then booking it into a r/r and getting andy to map it there aint a problem may cost you £100 more rent the rr for an hr or so but if it gives you peace of mind it's at your discretion.

Alot of mappers will always rubbish another system without even trying to learn the other system properly or just find it to different compared to what they are used to mapping, number one thing is speak to your local mapping place and go from there.

6th November 2011, 15:19

why are you all jumping on this ldavies?

he paid money, he didnt get what he wanted, he sold the ECU and shared his experience. As said, this is a forum where we do that.

He paid 550 for map and cam timing and travelled 3 hours or whatever to do it. it wasnt good enough so he got rid.

This is why you need to find someone local to you for support - it should be considered when you purchase, this is one of the reasons that i didnt go pred because mapping online or on road only is not good enough for me, i want it RR becasue i believe every engine is different and a i want a tuner to see it first hand and see a printout.

i'd have been pissed off with those figures myself and prob done the same - you have to ask yourself, do i throw more money at it and drive another 3 hours or cut my losses? because he wanted it on a RR and was only offered more road mapping, this clearly wasnt up to his requirements. not only that he couldnt get the fueling right the first time so would he get it right the second time - he prob could, but this guy didnt want to take the chance!

I have no problem with andy - if he was closer and could RR i'd use him for defo as he certainly knows these engines and that is a big bonus, but i wouldnt because for me supporting from southampton is not an option.

6th November 2011, 15:21

That s the best reply on this thread exactly what you said mate with the RR mapping etc.

6th November 2011, 15:30

So why didn't you get it RR mapped in the first place then?
You expected 100%, so how was that to materialise with it being road mapped?

Again sorry for the questions but it does seem as if you haven't really thought it through when you purchased the pred, put your expectations way too high and then got burned - a bit of preparation and research would have gone a long way to avoiding your saga.

6th November 2011, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by e8_pqck

why are you all jumping on this ldavies?

he paid money, he didnt get what he wanted, he sold the ECU and shared his experience. As said, this is a forum where we do that.

No one is jumping on him. I know Lee personally and have no problem with him, i even said he should go for a Pred etc

This thread is on ECU's not the maps on them.

The ECU is prob fine, possible not an up to scratch map.
If you have an Omex and it has a poor map on it, are you going to say its a bad ecu, come on this thread and say Omex are rubbish?
Same with if you go to ChipWizards and get a bad map are you going to say the OEM ecu isn't any good?

He has shared his experience. But the thread is what ECU's are about and avail for what cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

Fitting and mapping of the ECU, if required, will be £50. Dyno mapping would be an extra cost as will timing in cams, or fitting of any new parts. I can quote separately for a whole raft of other parts and services from air filters and exhaust/manifold fitting to fitment and timing of cams!

Its not like RR was not avail.

6th November 2011, 16:23

no i'd say chipwizards aren't very good and if chipwizards are the only one doing standard ecu's then i'd say remapped standard ecu's are crap because chipwizards are the only ones that do them and by direct association - are crap. (if that was the case!)

fact is, when you make a decision about an ECU you think about the mapper, the support, resale, features, cost etc.

In this case the product didnt live up to expectations and the support didnt meet his requirements, he was too far away and he couldnt get anyone else close enough to map it, so he got rid - whats the problem with that? Certainly something to consider before a purchase is it not?

If you can handle that - buy one. if not, buy something else like Lee is doing.

6th November 2011, 16:30

Your are spot on yet again mate said I wasn't going to reply on here now but think I should make this comment after you have clearly said it spot on.
No one would map my standard 1 plug Ecu that's why I went pred and up to now chip wizards is the only place that will map my standard Ecu.
Everything you've said in post above mate is exactly my point.

6th November 2011, 16:40

so what was the main reason for buying a predator over any other ecu.

6th November 2011, 16:48

The saving money by mapping the standard ecu thing isn't the best route, especially of you ever decide to change the spec of the engine.

The main reason the aftermarket ecu is so great is that you are not tied to 1single mapper in 1 part of the uk. So this is a reason why no system is 'better' for everyone as to some don't need the better features of say a motec especially if local tuners specialise in emerald and omex.

As for tuners slating others ecus, that's common look at at speed and the way they push omex branded ecus, they're a company who can map ecus but also like to push products they sell.

As for mapping, my new map cost me £300 on my emerald and was done over several hours on the dyno. You get what you pay for, if you are trying to do things cheap and in a rush then it's obvious you will get issues.

On the subject of the predator, when my car was off the road with a shagged engine loom I fitted a standard engine loom, andy brought up a pred free of charge to test my loom and engine to help fault find. Bear in mind the car hadn't run for a long time it started first time about 2mins after he put the ecu on the car. Now I can't slate that.

6th November 2011, 17:38

Having read the thread I would say one of 2 things has happened.

It sounds like some sort of variable has changed with the engine and the rr which has caused the fueling to be all over the place.

Maybe something to do with the throttle cable being adjusted?

Getting the standard ecu mapped is dead money, ie you wont get anywhere near 550 back. Plus you need to go back to chipwizards to get the map changed. Rickyrpm would slate the Predator as he used chipwizards so will clearly push a standard ecu remap.

If I was you id get the Predator mapped back up - really simplictically you are effectively just targeting a certain afr at different load and rpm points. When something changes with the engine like an inlet leak then it chucks the map right off.

You have a wideband fitted with the Predator? I would definitelty have a wideband so it adjusts the fueling automatically to hit target afrs

Pm me if you want to as I played around a lot with the Predator and a couple of other ecus so have a bit of knowledge on the topic - im by no means an expert though

6th November 2011, 17:43

Thanks for your help and your services mate but ive sold the pred mate.

6th November 2011, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

Thanks for your help and your services mate but ive sold the pred mate.

O sorry to hear it, you had the standard ecu remapped yet?

Out of interest, you lose much on the predator when you sold it?

When I had mine I got into learning how the ecu works etc and it really helps to understand exactly what youre buying and evaluate what 'tuners' tell you about mapping and the power they can get out of your car with a remap!

6th November 2011, 17:55

Just to add, aslong as youre happy with things now and the car pulls well when on cam then is all good, regardless of the ecu and bhp figure

6th November 2011, 18:10

Ye all seems well mate. I had it up at 450 posted and sold it for 430 collected mate to a lad who only wanted it cos he had phase 3 cams fitted and just wanted it to cure is idle on is saxo vts.
As for mapping in on standard Ecu now mate and I'm going to phone all garages up and try and find at least one that will map it and do a bit of research in them compared to chip wizards.

6th November 2011, 19:39

Chipwizards are one of the only places I know of who map the standard ecu's instead of just generic chips.

Would be good to see who else in the uk can properly map standard ecus as chipwizards is pretty north.

You want to go for thottle bodies in the future? Good price for the Predator!

6th November 2011, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by raunchz

Chipwizards are one of the only places I know of who map the standard ecu's instead of just generic chips.

Would be good to see who else in the uk can properly map standard ecus as chipwizards is pretty north.

You want to go for thottle bodies in the future? Good price for the Predator!

Cheers mate ye bodies are on the agenda after Christmas is out the way that's why I'm best off hanging on for the map that way I can get the bodies on plus my mechanics going to do some head work for me and then I will just have to pay for the map once instead of paying twice.
The misses wants me to sell it and go for a scooby turbo but at this moment in time mate the car means more to me than what I would probably get for it if I sold it.

6th November 2011, 19:52

I have an Omex, still to be fitted. Going by the price and features, it seems like everything Id need on a cammed VTS. Resale is pretty good as they seem sought after. Hard to find many mappers, but I think thats due mainly to where I live!

6th November 2011, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabbastard

I have an Omex, still to be fitted. Going by the price and features, it seems like everything Id need on a cammed VTS. Resale is pretty good as they seem sought after. Hard to find many mappers, but I think thats due mainly to where I live!

Whose mapping it for you mate?

6th November 2011, 19:58

The only mappers Ive been able to find up my way are GMC it seems.

6th November 2011, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabbastard

The only mappers Ive been able to find up my way are GMC it seems.

As I've been trying to tell everyone throughout this thread mate it is very difficult trying to find someone to map these weaver it be the pred or the omex.
Hope it all goes well for you mate when you get it fitted and mapped.
Iirc mark1311 off here as the omex in is track car, might be worth speaking to him mate maybe he knows who can map it or may have some knowledge on it.

6th November 2011, 20:11

Would be good to get a base map, Ill give him a shout, cheers

Almost fancied trying it with my mate, as he mapped his own 11 sec mini LOL

6th November 2011, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

As I've been trying to tell everyone throughout this thread mate it is very difficult trying to find someone to map these weaver it be the pred or the omex.

Not really totally true. Google omex mappers for example and there are loads all over, however the gaybastard is way up in scotland

Plenty of people have also mapped predators, as said just quite a few will deter you from purchasing one and instead try to get you to buy the system they sell so it helps their bottom line.

6th November 2011, 20:15

Didnt GMC map Simo's predator?

6th November 2011, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Not really totally true. Google omex mappers for example and there are loads all over, however the gaybastard is way up in scotland

Plenty of people have also mapped predators, as said just quite a few will deter you from purchasing one and instead try to get you to buy the system they sell so it helps their bottom line.

That's probably the case Ryan just saying no one wanted to touch it when I mentioned it and really didn't want to drive all way back to Southampton for Andy to try and sort it.
Yes he did offer to do it via the laptop but if he couldn't get it spot on when I was there what's to say he could make it any better via the net with no car in is presents.

6th November 2011, 20:43

rs tuning aint to far away from you bud, they are shit hot with omex

6th November 2011, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by boz

rs tuning aint to far away from you bud, they are shit hot with omex

Do they do omex mate as I spoke to them there in Leeds iirc and they wouldn't touch the pred.

6th November 2011, 20:56

aye, they do omex, i know a few people that have been there and had really good results. class with vauxhalls and renaults and anything to do with omex.
reasonable price aswell, they did a corker on my mates cav turbo ;D

6th November 2011, 20:59

something to mention if you are moaning about the price of the pred, if you go omex or other system you can double that initial price before the cost of mapping

6th November 2011, 21:01

im sure they also have their own form of ecu similar to omex

6th November 2011, 21:04

yip ryan is right on that one and mapping sessions aint cheap.
you have your loom and sensors to consider aswell, it all adds up, easy 1K plus to get on the road and thats on the optimistic side tbh
i have almost sorted all of mine out, i know where im going and have a bench mark estimate for what i want doing. well worth it though.

but as said before, the predator is still great value for money and has had some cracking results, i have considered all options many times, omex and dta are the 2 main ones that would be suited to what i want. just a shame they are so dam expensive lol

6th November 2011, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

something to mention if you are moaning about the price of the pred, if you go omex or other system you can double that initial price before the cost of mapping

May be more ye but if boz days rs tuners will map these that's a dam bonus to me.

6th November 2011, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by boz

yip ryan is right on that one and mapping sessions aint cheap.
you have your loom and sensors to consider aswell, it all adds up, easy 1K plus to get on the road and thats on the optimistic side tbh
i have almost sorted all of mine out, i know where im going and have a bench mark estimate for what i want doing. well worth it though.

but as said before, the predator is still great value for money and has had some cracking results, i have considered all options many times, omex and dta are the 2 main ones that would be suited to what i want. just a shame they are so dam expensive lol

Who did you get to fit and map yours if you don't mind me asking?

6th November 2011, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

May be more ye but if boz days rs tuners will map these that's a dam bonus to me.

But at 3x the cost?

ECU - 600+
Wiring in - depending on person 2-400
Mapping - another 400...

and you were moaning about spending another bit of money ontop of the £550.

6th November 2011, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

But at 3x the cost?

ECU - 600+
Wiring in - depending on person 2-400
Mapping - another 400...

and you were moaning about spending another bit of money ontop of the £550.

I was moaning about paying more simply because I spent 500 on the pred then 50 for the map and 20 on the cam timing then the 80.00 in fuel for it not to be mapped properly. Not been funny but when your spending that you want it running right.
I was more peed off about having to pay to have it mapped again and I'm sure it would have been at least 200.00+.
See where I'm cooming from with this.

6th November 2011, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

Who did you get to fit and map yours if you don't mind me asking?

i havnt got the parts or had it done yet.
i will pm you with who is going to do it for me ;D

secret squirrel and all that lol

6th November 2011, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by boz

i havnt got the parts or had it done yet.
i will pm you with who is going to do it for me ;D

secret squirrel and all that lol

Ok matey no probs lol