Carbs?!?!?!

1. elmartha Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Horncastle, Lincoln Posts: 171 Mk2 Vts mk1 front end Mk1 Mitsubishi GTO TT

   #1 23rd December 2011, 18:04

   I have just stripped down a yam fazer 600cc engine, and was telling my friend about it and he was saying he could convert my vts to run off the carbs, and when set up properly it would be throwing out about 170bhp, and i know that to get that much power from throttle bodies you will be spending a fortune! Would carbs make that much of a difference?
2. user_29491 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Lancs Posts: 4124 JP4S'd R.

   #2 23rd December 2011, 18:31

   In a short and simple answer NO.
   
   Your friend is very optimistic in thinking you can gain 50bhp putting carbs on.
3. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

   #3 23rd December 2011, 18:32

   I have R6 Carbs on my VTR
4. elmartha Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Horncastle, Lincoln Posts: 171 Mk2 Vts mk1 front end Mk1 Mitsubishi GTO TT

   #4 24th December 2011, 15:55

   Do the r6 carbs make much difference?!?!?! Would it be worth fitting them?
5. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

   #5 24th December 2011, 16:36

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by elmartha Do the r6 carbs make much difference?!?!?! Would it be worth fitting them?

   If you have other mods...
   
   My Engine is fully forged, Big Valves, Port and Polished Head, Lightened Flywheel etc...
6. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #6 24th December 2011, 16:38

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by elmartha I have just stripped down a yam fazer 600cc engine, and was telling my friend about it and he was saying he could convert my vts to run off the carbs, and when set up properly it would be throwing out about 170bhp, and i know that to get that much power from throttle bodies you will be spending a fortune! Would carbs make that much of a difference?

   If he thinks that a backwards step in engineering and tuning on throttle bodies will mean loads of power then he's deluded.
7. MiniGibbo Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2007 Bournemouth Posts: 15289 '04 VW Transporter.

   #7 24th December 2011, 16:51

   Carbs are terrible vs bodys..
8. titchster Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2008 Down't road from Sheffield Posts: 4641 Was:16v 106 XS ..... Now: Import 1.8 MX5

   #8 24th December 2011, 17:59

   Ask him how he came to a random figure like that. Cars with cams and bodies usually get that, and you can't really expect an engine on carbs to make as much power as an engine with injection...
9. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

   #9 24th December 2011, 18:24

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by titchster Ask him how he came to a random figure like that. Cars with cams and bodies usually get that, and you can't really expect an engine on carbs to make as much power as an engine with injection...

   Can't even blame max power anymore for the bhp by numbers..
   
   Air filter 15bhp
   Cams 45 bhp
   Exhaust 25bhp
   Flux capacitor 1000000bhp....
10. elmartha Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Horncastle, Lincoln Posts: 171 Mk2 Vts mk1 front end Mk1 Mitsubishi GTO TT

    #10 24th December 2011, 19:21

    Hmm i could do with a flux capacitor
11. f13sta Established Member Joined: Sep 2010 loughborough Posts: 2229 1988 ford fiesta mk2 1.4- 2001 black saxo furio (d

    #11 26th December 2011, 16:31

    bike carbs will offer an improvement over the std injection systems, but you'll need a stand alone ignition system such as omex or megajolt,
    
    in the ford world of putting 130 spec 1.8 zetecs the bike cars are the main route can add to 150-160 bhp so thats what 20-30 bhp over the std set up with rolling road print outs with the megajolt set up correctly due to their being 4 cars supplying 4 cylinders allows the engine to rev alot quicker and keep the torque curv consistant. . but yes bodies would be the route to go to add loads of power to a well tuned engine well not loads of power but over carbs they would be. if you get my drift lol. but if you can afford it the bodies are the way to go./
12. MiniGibbo Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Apr 2007 Bournemouth Posts: 15289 '04 VW Transporter.

    #12 26th December 2011, 16:43

    Theyres a good right up in "track driver" and basicully it says
    
    Bike carbs arent even worth mentioning, theyre fucking shit
    
    Carbs are inferior and a backwards step
    
    ITB's are awesome but its comman for people to fit the wrong size trumpets.
13. Beaniemoo Established Member Joined: Oct 2008 Milton Keynes Posts: 1210 Yellow 106 Rallye

    #13 26th December 2011, 17:57

    I fitted carbs to my old Vts and it produced good power, as good as if not more than similar spec'd itb cars!
    It was costly to do properly, and it probably didn't cost any less than itb's by the end.
    A lot of people seem to say they're shit, I was wondering what experiences these people had, as mine were brilliant!
    Set up beautifully and Atspeed were very very impressed by them.
    It started up on the button, without the choke or pumping the throttle, in all conditions from frosty mornings to after a good thrash!
    These carbs don't seem to go out of balance that badly as people in my family have had loads of bikes for long periods and it's rare they ever needed balancing!
    The old problems with the car were when Fisher pulled the engine out, clean, painted and moved everything, then put it in his car, now because this disruption it needs setting up again!
    I'm not saying carbs are a brilliant idea, but they were no where near as bad as everyone seems to make out!

    1 user thanked this post: elmartha
14. elmartha Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Horncastle, Lincoln Posts: 171 Mk2 Vts mk1 front end Mk1 Mitsubishi GTO TT

    #14 26th December 2011, 23:36

    Well my mate has them in his fiesta on his rs engine and its rapid! so people were saying they were a backwards step etc and i had no idea so thought i would ask! ill think about it, price a few things up and see!
15. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #15 26th December 2011, 23:42

    If you don't plan to have a dodgy mot stick with injection.
    
    Carbs are inferior to running a set of itbs. The reason why some cars will make more power than others is due to either poor or good standard inlet manifold design. Some cars you will see big gains as the stock inlet has poor flow.
16. Ryanp Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut

    #16 26th December 2011, 23:44

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MiniGibbo Theyres a good right up in "track driver" and basicully it says Bike carbs arent even worth mentioning, theyre fucking shit Carbs are inferior and a backwards step ITB's are awesome but its comman for people to fit the wrong size trumpets.

    Not totally true, the reson save slated bike bodies/carbs was due to what he called a bodied throttle set up.
    
    He also slated at powers as a marketing scam amongst others whilst wording it well so he didn't get sued lol.
    
    Sandy prefers to use bike bodies due to a mixture of factors, amongst them being position of the injector I believe.
    
    The trumpets are less of the issue, it's when people fit totally wrong sized butterfly's.
17. elmartha Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Horncastle, Lincoln Posts: 171 Mk2 Vts mk1 front end Mk1 Mitsubishi GTO TT

    #17 27th December 2011, 01:03

    Dodgy mot? i have a straight through exhaust anyway!
18. RustySkull Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Oct 2009 Basildon And Corringham, Essex Posts: 5179 MK1 Focus RS, Discovery TD5, Renault Trafic 2.0

    #18 27th December 2011, 09:21

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by elmartha Dodgy mot? i have a straight through exhaust anyway!

    To be fair carbs will always be more juicey, but if they are set up right you will be running fine
19. saxovtrjar Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2011 wiltshire Posts: 261 Saxo VTR phase 1 (sold), Saxo VTR phase 2

    #19 27th December 2011, 10:08

    there's nothing wrong with carbs but as said throttle bodies are better.
20. Beaniemoo Established Member Joined: Oct 2008 Milton Keynes Posts: 1210 Yellow 106 Rallye

    #20 27th December 2011, 10:41

    As I said I got 176ph out of:
    
    Jp4
    High comp
    Ph4 jp4 cams
    Headwork
    Supersprint exhaust manifold
    Yamaha R1 carbs
    Bogg brothers inlet manifold
    
    Which is the same as itb's with no running or starting issues!
    MOT wise, I think if you're running a decent spec engine you won't pass an MOT on emissions anyway with or without a cat owing to the age of Saxo's.

    1 user thanked this post: elmartha
21. saxovtrjar Regular Poster Joined: Nov 2011 wiltshire Posts: 261 Saxo VTR phase 1 (sold), Saxo VTR phase 2

    #21 27th December 2011, 12:18

    you should
22. elmartha Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2011 Horncastle, Lincoln Posts: 171 Mk2 Vts mk1 front end Mk1 Mitsubishi GTO TT

    #22 28th December 2011, 12:37

    I am tempted, will see! not that it is slow atm anyway!
23. skidzVTR Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 236 Saxo VTR Two Tone

    #23 28th December 2011, 14:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryan Can't even blame max power anymore for the bhp by numbers.. Air filter 15bhp Cams 45 bhp Exhaust 25bhp Flux capacitor 1000000bhp....

    
    Ha Ha Flux capaitor . Fu*king great .lol