Could someone please give some exhaust/manifold information (VTR)

  1. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #1
    I currently drive a Saxo VTR MkII 51 plate, two tone, which I have started doing a few bits too, just to make it nippy, nothing amazingly fast. I’m in need of a new exhaust and my friend is selling is full system for not very much at so am going to make the purchase. Only thing is, the exhaust is coming off of a MKI VTR ( i belive its year is 1999 ) may be wrong.

    Are the hangers likely to be in the same place, and regarding the manifold? What work would be needed for the manifold too fit properly..?

    Cheers!
  2. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Pontefract Posts: 4007 2010 E92 320i MSport
    #2
    It will all line up fine mate, the only thing you'll need is a decat pipe as the mk1 VTR had the CAT under the car and not in the manifold like yours.

    Unless of course, his exhaust system decats his car!
  3. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #3
    Yeah his is a De Cat system, so thats all good then! Cheers for that mate! Is there any DIY mods I can do to get a few extra BHP? or a guide on here of bits worth tweaking etc? Its 110.5bhp at moment, looking for 120-125 i suppose? Might see 113-114 with manifold and straight through.
  4. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Aug 2008 The wrong carpark Posts: 5152 Xantia 1.9TD
    #4
    What have you done so far??
  5. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #5
    Drilled my air box, removed that restricter on the box... and at the moment i have no exhaust from about half way down the mid pipe... it snapped off. That seemed to really free up top end power though strangely! My VTR would only do about 120-124mph. Since the exhaust pipe snapped halfway, its been off the clock a couple of times. But do need exhaust, can't keep using it without one, heince buying my mates system. So onykl mods i have done are drill box, run a cold air feed, and thats it mate ( + servbice it regularly, spark plugs ec etc )
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  6. Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 Northants Posts: 855 52 Silver Saxo VTR
    #6
    10bhp just from drilling the airbox, WOW.
    Tint your windows that'll give you 5bhp more
  7. Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 Northants Posts: 855 52 Silver Saxo VTR
    #7
    10bhp just from drilling the airbox, WOW.
    Tint your windows that'll give you 5bhp more
  8. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tommyboy1507 View Post
    10bhp just from drilling the airbox, WOW.
    Tint your windows that'll give you 5bhp more
    may have had some other things done to it before i got it. I have always owned Corsa B's. This is my first saxo, so not very clue up with them. all i know is this saxo, smashes my mates one (which is a MKI 90bhp) but also pulls on my mates 02plate vtr. Got rolling road done at red-dot, so they're not going to lie lol.
  9. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #9
    What difference would I see from a fast road cam? I dont want to spend thousands, otherwise i'd go down the turbo route. Just after some half decent power gains, without loosing the reliability my french car strangley has.
  10. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #10
    well fitting a cam is the biggest minor mod you can really do if u under stand that lol but after buyign a cam and mapoping it is not gonna leave much chnage from a grand unless your fitting it yourself with out mapping

    also if you really believe its got 110bhp then i would suspect it already has a cam in it as a drilled air box would make piss all difference. If it hasnt got an upgraded cam shaft in it then i highly doubt its 110bhp, if you had a full system already on it incuding manifold and a decent induction kit then it could produce that power and thats if your enigne still had 98bhp before all that studd was fitted, but dont always take a rolling road figure as truth, a lot of roads under read, and a lot over read, northampton motorsport is supposed to be a reliable road
  11. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #11
    Yeah see it may not be accurate, i couldn't say really. Well i noticed some cams that didn't require a map, but then again, like you say, thats if they haven't been done. Ok so say i went the throttle body route. Thats going to be near the grand mark, bit over. Surely it would be better investing in that, if a cam and a map is going to cost near that, and not give much of a gain.

    People complain about the noise of throttle bodies...? what noise do they makeas i don't belive i'd of heard? Does it just make the exhaust louder due to more air flow?
  12. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #12
    complain?? people wank over the sound of throttle bodies ha, its because you have 4 throttle bdoeis not just one so the noise people love is the induction sound of all the air being sucked in, its like fitting an open cone air filter to your car on idle it doesnt make any diffrence to the noise but when you press the throttle it makes a deeper louder sound, its like that but about 1000x more sexual ha

    cost wise can vary loads, you deffinitely looking at more than a grand to throttle body your car, the buy the same set of bodies Ive got is about £1300 on kamracing and that just for the bdoies, then i spent a further a further £300 on cams. 120 on head gasket kit, £500 on new ecu and then a couple hundred on tools, oils, coolant etcccc i got my bodies second hand for £400 in the end and that was ridiculously cheap they usually go for more second hand

    obviously for a vtr its cheapers as the cams are cheaper as you only have to buy 1, headgasket kit is a lot cheaper as well for some reason and you dont NEED a new ecu like i got BUT you will need it mapped and i know northampton motorsport charge £500-£600 for mapping which is more than what i paid for my ecu lol i did get my ecu on a group buy though it is now £670 iirc

    if i was you id just put a 16v engine in best value for money how ever if your stickign with the vtr enigne just buy a decent cam, 4-2-1 and your mates exhaust and some decent brakes/suspension and enjoy it

    Yes you are right some cams dont require a map but they all benefit from one, i have an unmapped gti and its fine if you can put up with it, the idle isnt smooth like a standard car and the low down power isnt great, but when it gets higher int he rev range it pulls very hard, a re-map would sort the idle out and give it a better power curve
  13. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #13
    Ok mate, well you've been very helpful. Yeah im unsure what route to go down. I was in this situation with my old GSi. That was a decision between a redtop or throttlebodies. As you can guess, with my lack of knowledge when it comes to TBs, i went for a redtop .

    So i could TB my vtr for under 2k probably? I have been looking for throttle bodie for a 8v, but cant seem to find any. Just TBs for Gti's / vts. I'll have to keep looking.

    Is there anywhere you know of, where i could get hold of a new/reconditioned vts engine there. Going to look into everything before i make a decision.

    At the moment I have been having quite alot of fun in the VTR, so theres no rush for me to make it much quicker, exhaust on friday should make a slight difference for now!
  14. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #14
    ( other thing, is TB's are going to be near the 2k mark, would turbo be worth considering on the 8v?? What PSi can you run safely, with a few internal mods (pistons,rods etc)
  15. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #15
    yes you could body your less than £2k, for the vtr it would be worth getting some gsxr1000 throtlle bodies off ebay for about £100 and then you can send them to a guy called colin that makes them up in to bolt on kit for about £500, so your looking at £600-700 for a fully bolt on kit, and then around £200 for a fast road cam to make use of the throttle bodies, also dont forget a head gasket kit and other oils/filters/plugs etc some people have fitted a cam in to a vtr before without takign the head off meaning you dont need to get a head gasket kit, but removing the engine mount and jacking the engine up slightly as the cam comes out the side of the head, you need to make a bit of room for it to come out

    and then lastly you will want a remap so budget £500 for that

    so you could probs do it for £1500 or less, theres always bargains coming up in the forsale section, nothing wrong with second hand bodies and cams, however as you already said most of these parts are more available for a 16v engine
  16. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo
    #16
    turbo side of things i dont know much about them, someone else will have to answer those questions, again 8v turbo kits come up cheap in the forsale section

    juat add everything up before you start buying it all can very easily run out of control
  17. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2006 Maidstone Posts: 8210 Golf TDI
    #17
    Personally I wouldn't plow 2k into a car worth maybe a grand for only a small gain in power and some noise from the boddies, but that's just me.

    I would go down the cam route and get an ECU that could be used if you planned to turbo later as that would save you having to buy it. You could then look at turboing in the future and save the cost of the ECU itself.

    No point wasting money on something you are planning to sell later...
  18. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #18
    Yeah suppose your right. Perhaps i should start with a 16v lump. least that will be an instant gain. Then from there build on it. Out of curiousity, i know i won't get an exact figure. but what sort of power would an 8v run, using the bodies from a gsxr + cam + head work? 135-140 perhaps? or would you say less?
  19. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #19
    Also, if either you guys know, i had an account prevously, Legz VTR believe it was, but cannot sign in. Who would i speak too about trying to get on to the classifieds as i cannot view any for sale threads which is such a pain! Dont know where else i can get second hand saxo parts
  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Pontefract Posts: 4007 2010 E92 320i MSport
    #20
    I know of a VTR with just breathing mods, still had the Cat, that produced 107bhp on a very reliable rolling road, so 110bhp doesn't seem too far fetched.
    Wouldn't surprise me if it had a cam in there already though.

    The best most cost effective mod you can do to increase the performance of a VTR is to fit a VTS gearbox.
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  21. L-plater Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 39
    #21
    A VTS gearbox would make quite a difference then would it? at the moment i do like the gear ratio and the car does 135-140 when pushed. But then i wouldn't know what a VTR with an S gearbox would be like. I couldn't say about the cam, never tkaen the top half apart, was a younger guy i bought it from, so perhaps. has struts fitted, so wouldnt shock me if he had fitted a cam previously.
  22. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182
    #22
    Take the cap off the end of the cam and see if its got a letter stamped on it.
    I'd recommend an xsi/vts box for a VTR or an S1 rally box but you wont get anywhere near even 120 mph out of it with the s1.
    I personally think the rally heads on a vtr is the best bang for buck mod, after all the rest of the normal things like manifolds, induction, decat and less restrictive exhaust. In the rallye head you get a "J" cam which is 270 degree and a better flowing head - probably pick one up for less than a new camshaft but you'll obviously need a new headgasket when fitting.
  23. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2006 Maidstone Posts: 8210 Golf TDI
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RyanSvtr View Post
    A VTS gearbox would make quite a difference then would it? at the moment i do like the gear ratio and the car does 135-140 when pushed. But then i wouldn't know what a VTR with an S gearbox would be like. I couldn't say about the cam, never tkaen the top half apart, was a younger guy i bought it from, so perhaps. has struts fitted, so wouldnt shock me if he had fitted a cam previously.
    More like 115-120 when you account for the speedo inaccuracies in a saxo