Saxo Turbo head gasket height?

1. VenoMNL Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2008 Lisbon - Portugal Posts: 189 Citroen Saxo VTS 1.6i 16v Turbo Renault Express 1

   #1 13th January 2012, 16:26

   A friend of mine wants to make a turbo engine (low boost preparation) with stock block..
   
   does anyone knows wich height should the head gasket have?
   
   So he can ask a head gaskets company to make one..
   
   Cause DP-Engineering descompression plates are 220 Euros.. (absurd)
   
   CHeers!
2. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

   #2 13th January 2012, 16:40

   He needs to decide in spec of car, what characteristics he want the engine to have, how much boost he will run, what standard compression ratio is, head skimmed?
3. Kwik-Nick L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Watford Posts: 49

   #3 13th January 2012, 17:32

   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Sa...item4a9da3f579
   You can buy decompression plate from here.
4. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #4 13th January 2012, 19:39

   DO NOT buy one of those decomps
   
   i emailed that guy ages ago and had the first saxo one made, before then he only made classic mini decomps, the quality is really poor, they are not milled out like they should be, he uses a laser cutter to cut the shape out, when you recieve it its really rough and one side has a lip
   
   he makes them for lots of cars now, i cant imagine the it will seal for long if it seals at all
   
   go for the DP one or see if http://www.ferriday.co.uk/ will post one out to you
   
   as danny already posted you need to decide what compression ratio you want to run
5. VenoMNL Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2008 Lisbon - Portugal Posts: 189 Citroen Saxo VTS 1.6i 16v Turbo Renault Express 1

   #5 13th January 2012, 21:10

   I have here a company that makes PERFECT head gaskets.. at a very very good price.. i just need to know.. wich size its the better so they can do it
   
   <Cheers!
6. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

   #6 13th January 2012, 21:46

   depends on boost venom if its only something like 8-10psi 1.9mm would work fine ferriday decomp over here is about £120 so cheaper than the dp one but if he can get custom one made 2mm maybe?
7. VenoMNL Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2008 Lisbon - Portugal Posts: 189 Citroen Saxo VTS 1.6i 16v Turbo Renault Express 1

   #7 13th January 2012, 21:49

   Yeah.. thanks sophia.. in here theres a house that makes for 50 pounds.. they only do head gaskets.. ill take a photo of one later..
   
   cheers!
8. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

   #8 13th January 2012, 21:55

   there is a guy on here jungle only ran a single 1.9mm hg nothing else and over 1 bar only reason he had a problem was previous engine problems before turbo last a few years driven hard as well.
   
   If your friend goes for 8-12psi on a single standard 1.9mm hg and the mapping is good no reason why it shouldn't last but if you get a good custom one made to suit then again should be ok if mapping is good
9. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

   #9 14th January 2012, 13:27

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by VenoMNL Yeah.. thanks sophia.. in here theres a house that makes for 50 pounds.. they only do head gaskets.. ill take a photo of one later.. cheers!

   Hi Venon I need to make one for my saxo Cup Turbo, Porto we have a company that makes it arround 100-120eur in cooper, what type of gasket is yours made, can you give the contact.
   
   My saxo has stock head, and I whant a 9.5 cr ratio to run every day car with a ihi vf34 turbo from a subaru.
   
   se puderes manda-me pelo forum PSAMANIACS Portugal.
   
   Abraço
10. iSlayeR Established Member Joined: Aug 2009 King's lynn Posts: 2073 Turbocharged vtr

    #10 14th January 2012, 19:24

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 DO NOT buy one of those decomps i emailed that guy ages ago and had the first saxo one made, before then he only made classic mini decomps, the quality is really poor, they are not milled out like they should be, he uses a laser cutter to cut the shape out, when you recieve it its really rough and one side has a lip he makes them for lots of cars now, i cant imagine the it will seal for long if it seals at all go for the DP one or see if http://www.ferriday.co.uk/ will post one out to you as danny already posted you need to decide what compression ratio you want to run

    
    I might of bought one from him seemed fairly good quaility, do you think it's worth taking the head off again and fitting a ferriday one? :\
11. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #11 14th January 2012, 19:32

    did you use any sealant? how many gaskets did you fit? type of sealant used if any? and how exactly have you fitted it with the gasket/s and block/head?
12. iSlayeR Established Member Joined: Aug 2009 King's lynn Posts: 2073 Turbocharged vtr

    #12 14th January 2012, 19:59

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 did you use any sealant? how many gaskets did you fit? type of sealant used if any? and how exactly have you fitted it with the gasket/s and block/head?

    used The blue gasket sealent i've seen qouted on here by a few people, can't remember the name, and 1 head gasket 1.5mm one from cituining i think, head gasket first then decomp plate, then sealent (not going crazy with it) then head on, torque'd and angle tightened correctly.
13. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #13 14th January 2012, 20:02

    curil?
    
    its up to you mate, mine was rough as fuck, may have improved..
14. iSlayeR Established Member Joined: Aug 2009 King's lynn Posts: 2073 Turbocharged vtr

    #14 14th January 2012, 20:12

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 curil? its up to you mate, mine was rough as fuck, may have improved..

    hylomar* blue gasket sealent, spose i'll risk it, too much hassle taking the head off and cleaning everything up :\ started worrying when i read your post lol Spose i'll find out if it's sealed when i run the engine normally without the boosted parts first
15. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #15 14th January 2012, 20:13

    probs be fine like that, you find out when you go on boost

    1 user thanked this post: iSlayeR
16. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #16 8th February 2012, 13:47

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush there is a guy on here jungle only ran a single 1.9mm hg nothing else and over 1 bar only reason he had a problem was previous engine problems before turbo last a few years driven hard as well. If your friend goes for 8-12psi on a single standard 1.9mm hg and the mapping is good no reason why it shouldn't last but if you get a good custom one made to suit then again should be ok if mapping is good

    with a stock head and a 1,9mm head gasket the engine will run with what CR?
    
    I'm aiming for a cr ratio of 9,5 and will run on 0,6-0,8bar of boost (0,6 every day- 0,8bar only when needed... )
17. atspeedracing Frequent Poster Joined: Aug 2008 ESSEX Posts: 727 106 GTi Turbo

    #17 8th February 2012, 15:06

    decomp package is 2x headgaskets + a steel plate. so when you break down cost of buying 2 gaskets, and having a plate made, its not too bad cost wise. e.g. a genuine gasket may be £40-£50 each?? then having a single plate made + design/set up times.. its not cost effective to have just one done. obviously DP get the plates made batches at a time to save their costs, but thats how it earns the money.
    
    you can run 2 thick gaskets, but unless you cc the head, piston, gasket etc, you wont know the CR (unless your lucky enough to find someone with reliable info)... buying the DP decomp package, you save the hassle of working anything out - its all done for you.
    
    - colin.
18. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

    #18 8th February 2012, 15:22

    xenon - a 1.9mm multi layered steel gasket will be fine for that level of boost. any higher and your into the danger zone. you should concentrate more on fuelling and choice of turbo. I'd strongly recommend you also run a front mount intercooler.
19. Gareth_R Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Basildon, Essex Posts: 1042 Citroen AX VTS

    #19 8th February 2012, 21:20

    You don't need two headgaskets with a decomp
    
    Plus DP and other companies don't know the history of your engine - might have had 3 headgasket failures with a skim everytime so your CR will be different to what they think
    
    Only proper way to do it is measure te volume of your combustion chamber in your head, plus everything else, and do calculations to find the thickness of gasket and plate that you need
20. user_57322 Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 334

    #20 8th February 2012, 21:26

    If only one is used, what do you use between the block and the decomp plate instead?
21. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

    #21 9th February 2012, 03:14

    Yu use a paste. Curil paste is what's supplied with Ferriday decomps. Good stuff.
22. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #22 9th February 2012, 15:02

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevo1600 Yu use a paste. Curil paste is what's supplied with Ferriday decomps. Good stuff.

    my engine is 100% stock block, 134.000km never opened, so never skimed, I will use a FMIC
    
    
    
    the Turbo is a ihi VF34 ballBering from a subaru that came from a saxo turbo project of a friend
    
    
    
    my goal is only 200bhp-220bhp think i will go for the 2mm on the safe side...
23. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #23 9th February 2012, 15:06

    That's a HUGE turbo capable of nearly 400hp.. Do you really need/want somethin that big? It will be fun/fast for sure
24. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #24 9th February 2012, 15:11

    now that will be an interesting one xenon!
25. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #25 9th February 2012, 15:11

    was just thinking that, surely for the power you want there are better suited turbos about near you?
26. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #26 9th February 2012, 15:28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush now that will be an interesting one xenon!

    200bhp-220bhp will be at stage one
    
    I have this GTX3076R to be fitted on the other saxo...
    
    
27. dannygti Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Feb 2006 dudley United Kingdom (England) Posts: 6790 106 gti/ SEAT LCR

    #27 9th February 2012, 15:32

    Jesus, that will have some power but spool time won't be great.. Is it a drag car? The gtx3076 is capable of 600hp lol
28. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #28 9th February 2012, 15:52

    on a decomp
29. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #29 9th February 2012, 16:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 on a decomp

    
    no... the white saxo was a "full drag engine" thats the one that will use the GTX3076R
    
    the ihi vf34 will be used on my saxo with decomp

    1 user thanked this post: blackie_2k5
30. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #30 9th February 2012, 17:18

    the decomp plate will be a 2,20mm like my mechanic said with the ihi vf34 on the saxo vts (cup) you wil not run it at 0,6bar or 0,8bar for long time it's a waste to run it that low...
31. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

    #31 9th February 2012, 18:02

    now those are big turbos lol.
32. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #32 9th February 2012, 18:10

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevo1600 now those are big turbos lol.

    what standalone do you have to sell? send me the info to rui.xenon@netcabo.pt
    
    xenontuningshop.blogspot.com
33. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #33 9th February 2012, 20:56

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dannygti Jesus, that will have some power but spool time won't be great.. Is it a drag car? The gtx3076 is capable of 600hp lol

    yes is a Drag Car (SR car) from GONDOMAR Portugal. (the white one)
    
    300+bhp (on the ihi vf34) and 150bhp nitro kit!
    
    let's see this year with the GTX3076R...
34. Gareth_R Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Basildon, Essex Posts: 1042 Citroen AX VTS

    #34 9th February 2012, 23:06

    it also depends what material the decomp is made from as to whether you go block>paste>decomp>gasket>head or block>gasket>decomp>paste>head
    
    iirc mine is an alloy one so used the second option to keep the same materials together and keep the alloy away from the iron block
35. user_57322 Regular Poster Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 334

    #35 9th February 2012, 23:17

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gareth_R it also depends what material the decomp is made from as to whether you go block>paste>decomp>gasket>head or block>gasket>decomp>paste>head iirc mine is an alloy one so used the second option to keep the same materials together and keep the alloy away from the iron block

    What about multi-layred steel ones?
36. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

    #36 10th February 2012, 01:34

    you can fit mls gaskets with decomps.
    
    mine was, block>gasket>decomp>paste>head.
    
    1.9mm mls head gasket
    1mm alu decomp
37. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #37 10th February 2012, 09:12

    I will be using a custom reinforced gasket 2,20mm with center in cooper, no need to use a nother gasket or decomp plate, all in one
38. Jiggins L-plater Joined: Aug 2011 Essex Posts: 38 Saxo vtr turbo

    #38 12th February 2012, 16:08

    in my opinion there is no need for a decomp plate
    with the right fueling and map there shouldnt be a problem
39. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #39 17th February 2012, 21:17

    
    
    
    
    reinforced in cooper Made in Portugal by EUROJUNTAS 2,20mm

    1 user thanked this post: blackie_2k5
40. user_35090 Established Member Joined: Jun 2009 west mids (dudley) Posts: 1201 cammed 106 flatty

    #40 17th February 2012, 21:26

    thats almost the perfect gasket. infact, i think it is the perfect gasket.
    
    nice one
41. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #41 18th February 2012, 23:14

    time to start to put the "LEGO's" together
42. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #42 5th November 2012, 15:17

    what became of this xenon?
43. user_4681 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2004 Grimsby United Kingdom (England) Posts: 5489 SUPERCHARGED saxo vts

    #43 5th November 2012, 19:47

    id like to know what gearbox etc that drag one runs.
44. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #44 5th November 2012, 21:09

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ross what became of this xenon?

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
45. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #45 5th November 2012, 23:02

    

    1 user thanked this post: user_4681
46. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #46 6th November 2012, 01:52

    any specs?
47. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #47 6th November 2012, 16:24

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by XENON reinforced in cooper Made in Portugal by EUROJUNTAS 2,20mm

    a gasket with fire rings is never going to be as good as an MLS gasket
    why do think std engine went to MLS --cos its the best you can get --gaskets with firw rings tend to get hot on the ring and burn through and copper will not work that well with strech bolts either
    
    you want 2.2 mm
    then 1.7 +0.6 gasket £68 +vat = postage ,but for low boost no need to go that low if you are adjusting ign + fuelling correctly
48. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #48 6th November 2012, 23:18

    wise words
    
    
    
    TU5J4 Engine Sold (the head cracked)
    
    TU5JP4 going in low milege
49. XENON Newbie Joined: Mar 2004 MAIA/PORTO Portugal Posts: 27

    #49 6th November 2012, 23:20

    
    
    
    for the DRAG one, will race for the first time this November 10