FAO of 16v Newman Ph3 owners

  1. Established Member Joined: Oct 2008 Milton Keynes Posts: 1210 Yellow 106 Rallye
    #1
    Right here is the situation:
    We have fitted a VTS engine into a mates VTR, but supplied with the engine was a set of Newman Ph3 cams and a Piper exhaust manifold.
    We have fitted the cams and exhaust to the engine and fitted into the car.
    After fixing numerous wiring issues I've got a fault code free starting and running engine, but the problem is the car just will not idle, as in cutting out all the time, not rough idle.
    Done a compression test and got 170psi a cylinder so it seems like a strong engine.
    Only problem is it appears it seems to have a head gasket issue as the oil is a bit milky, it's using a lot of coolant, a fair bit of steam from the exhaust and there is a rattle from the top end we suspect may be caused by the thin watered down oil, also maybe causing idle issue as its the only thing we can fault with the engine, but struggling to think how it could cause the lack of idle.
    In the mean time my mate has rung pug-1-off to try to get it remapped and they have said that with those cams the car will never idle.
    Now looking into doing the headgasket for him, he's considering returning to standard cams to get his idle back.
    So my main question is will a VTS engine on standard management, with Newman Ph3 cams and Piper exhaust manifold idle? I've read that they sould but I want to be sure as I don't want to pull his cams out for no reason.

    Cheers
    Sorry for the long post
  2. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B
    #2
    it should idle, but cam timing may cause it not too

    also could be flooding with water which is just to much to idle with? but cold rev..but id expect it to splutter like fuck when revving if that was the case?

    defo not electrical?
  3. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2007 Someones Bumhole Posts: 5721 Mk2 16v Desire
    #3
    We do the combination cams because they dont idle on ph3's. However since ive worked there ive never fit any but there is a few on here that have ph3's and have a nice idle.
  4. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B
    #4
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tom5190 View Post
    We do the combination cams because they dont idle on ph3's. However since ive worked there ive never fit any but there is a few on here that have ph3's and have a nice idle.
    from what ive read they dont idle on newmans spec?

    but can be adjusted back to idle
  5. Established Member Joined: Oct 2008 Milton Keynes Posts: 1210 Yellow 106 Rallye
    #5
    Timing is spot on, even set them using a dti. Have checked it again since and te marks all line up.
    I have a Diagnostic computer and there are no fault codes in it and all the values seem to be reading ok. Only thing is it appears to be running rich with a lambda reading of around 800 rather than fluctuating high to low. But as this is in the exhaust, that could be caused by any fault anywhere.
    Revs up and drives very well, just purely won't idle.
    Does run rougher on cold start I must admit, but as I've never run a cam'd car on standard management it's hard to tell whats caused by the cams and whats a fault
    Even more oddly, on very odd occasions it does idle ok and the lambda does start to fluctuate correctly, but then will cut out and start pissing about again.
    I did think it should idle with the cams but I wanted to make sure.
  6. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2007 Someones Bumhole Posts: 5721 Mk2 16v Desire
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 View Post
    from what ive read they dont idle on newmans spec?

    but can be adjusted back to idle
    Personally i dont have any expereince with them ive never fit a set or seen a set fit. i no we say they dont on standard inlet but ive seen cars idling with them in. Must be to do with the timing im guessing.

    Have you tried them on standard timing marks?
  7. Scotland Joined: Jul 2005 Edinburgh Posts: 9556 Saxo 1.6i 16v VTS, 2 Classic Minis
    #7
    PH3s on the standard timing marks should idle with a stock ECU. I've ran them on the standard timing with 2 different engines without issue.

    Andy (luthor1) mentioned to me one of the cams (cant remember which) if its timed the wrong way (i.e. not in between the standard mark & the newman spec) to affect the idle pretty severely! I'm sure he can shed a little more light on it.