plumbing in a turbo

13th August 2012, 18:59

How is the best way of running the water feed and return to and from a turbo?

Where from and to?

What should i use for running lines from coolant system, t piece?

16th August 2012, 10:04

Anyone?

16th August 2012, 10:16

plumb into the heater lines is easiest. You don't want to use an inline t, you want to force water through the turbo. Extend the matrix lines to the turbo, then from turbo to matrix again. It can be done in a tidy way. You may see photos of people who have just put a T in the matrix line but this wont force water through the turbo, as the water will just flow through the T on the path of least resistance.

16th August 2012, 10:30

Mines t'd in

With a restrictor in the to persuade the majority of the water through the turbo and let a small amount head straight through the T

16th August 2012, 15:21

Got any pictures?

Is it best to do before or after the engines in?

16th August 2012, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Mines t'd in

With a restrictor in the to persuade the majority of the water through the turbo and let a small amount head straight through the T

This is the ticket.

16th August 2012, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Mines t'd in

With a restrictor in the to persuade the majority of the water through the turbo and let a small amount head straight through the T

Would the T piece go in the hose from radiator into back of engine or one from back of engine to heater matrix?

What would you use to restrict it?

16th August 2012, 16:53

Matrix

I used a copper washer betteen the T pieces

16th August 2012, 17:08

Good idea that blackie

Iirc shaun (106moaners) took his originally from the top rad hose but IMO its easier to use the matrix lines like blackie and I. Pipe size is similar etc.

Advantage is also warm air quicker thanks to toasty turbo

16th August 2012, 18:30

Yeah it's mint in the winter

16th August 2012, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Matrix

I used a copper washer betteen the T pieces

any pictures of what you mean blackie? trying to see it in my head but failing :/

16th August 2012, 19:32

I haven't mate, car is at work

16th August 2012, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

plumb into the heater lines is easiest. You don't want to use an inline t, you want to force water through the turbo. Extend the matrix lines to the turbo, then from turbo to matrix again. It can be done in a tidy way. You may see photos of people who have just put a T in the matrix line but this wont force water through the turbo, as the water will just flow through the T on the path of least resistance.

In theory.

Just tee in to the line, the system runs at pressure, so it will flow. The vts oil cooler is a prime example, it'll be fine. Your best off looking to direct water from the bottom of the rad or before it enters the engine as the heater pipes have already come from the engine so they are hot.

17th August 2012, 19:30

What size T piece will i need? I know the T off will need to be same size as the feed to turbo which is between 12-13mm. Just need the main part to be the ID of the hose to heater.

I was also told i could do it from the header tank, not sure if this for the feed or return (if it had 2 outlets aswell as overflow).

17th August 2012, 19:36

I'm not with the car at the mo so going from memory I think it's 17 or 18mm? Blackie will know off the top of his head I suspect when he gets notified about the thread.

17th August 2012, 20:37

Edit! i'm guessing 17mm. Had the outlets modified on an alloy rad once but can't remember what they were!

17th August 2012, 20:42

i think its between 17-19mm

i bought 19mm outer diameter T's iirc? struggled but got them on, the outlet and pipe im pretty sure should be 19..but id imagine i struggled as the pipes have probs shrank a bit over the years

25th August 2012, 10:37

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/vie...id=33198200404

Something like this be ok for the coolant feed and return?

Struggling to find correct size t piece though.

25th August 2012, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

i think its between 17-19mm

i bought 19mm outer diameter T's iirc? struggled but got them on, the outlet and pipe im pretty sure should be 19..but id imagine i struggled as the pipes have probs shrank a bit over the years

The outer diameter of the feed on my turbo is 13mm so that means i need a 13mm water lines and a 13mm t off.

25th August 2012, 12:32

If its 13mm then that's the size you want mate

The pipes you want you should get made from a hose place local to you, decide which type of fitting your going to use to connect to the turbo (i used banjo bolts)

Decide how you'll connect the pipe to the t pieces.. I got straight hose tails and use some extra pipe and jubilees

Go to your hose place and get them to make the pipes in the correct length you'll need them in nylon water pipe with stainless over braid, silicone would melt being that close to the turbo

25th August 2012, 23:01

you can get self sealing take offs now, i dont think they are cheap but im sure they come in a range of sizes for everything. i was going to run the return to my header and the feed from one of the rad hoses. there is big debate to what is the right and wrong way, if at all. but im still yet to hear someone on here say, my turbo is dead because the water feed and return were in the wrong place and not working.

25th August 2012, 23:03

i have never had a good look at any standard turbo car to see where they run the feed and returns from, would be a good idea if any has a scooby, evo, pulsar etc just to compare. i will see where my mates cav turbo gets it from and dumps it off.

1st September 2012, 23:15

3SGTE Cooling system:

1st September 2012, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by e8_pqck

3SGTE Cooling system:

And a 3SGTE that killed its botterm end (just toke this picture)

Add on here the sump lol

2nd September 2012, 08:32

Thinking of using this for the water and return-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-AN10-Ny...item27bdf7ec6d

But its slightly too big ID for a 13mm connection but AN8 is to small. Would 1.3mm be a big difference or would it be ok with a jubilee clip?

3rd September 2012, 15:15

Logically thinking, I would remove the bottom sensor (brown) in the thermostat. If you don't have AC that is, otherwise is will be in use.

Feed the turbo from there and return after the thermostat. It should run coolant through because the thermostat itself work as a restrictor since it is not a butterfly valve but a push type.

This is all theoretically of course.

4th September 2012, 17:55

Found this on colins thread on 106oc. Think i may run it like this but use 13mm t pieces and inbetween the 2 t's for feed and return use a 13mm hose as smaller ID than what the actual hose should be so that will act as like a restister pushing through to the feed if im right?

11th September 2012, 14:40

According to Garrett:

Water-cooled center housings
were introduced to minimize the
effects of heat soak-back. These
use unpressurized coolant from the
engine to act as a heat sink after
engine shutdown, preventing the oil
from coking. The water lines utilize
a thermal siphon effect to reduce the
peak heat soak-back temperature after
key-off. The layout of the pipes should
eliminate peaks and troughs with the
(cool) water inlet on the low side. To
help this along, it is advantageous to
tilt the turbocharger approximately 25°
about the axis of shaft rotation.
Garrett® offers many turbos that are
water-cooled for enhanced durability.

From: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...Catalog_V4.pdf

11th September 2012, 14:44

So it is not necessary to pressurize the water feed to the turbo.

I wonder how much the turbo would be affected if you did "force" cool it, would it be negative as it would take longer to get up to temp or is it better because you can keep it cooler?

Any thoughts?

12th September 2012, 09:26

Your taking it out of context.. The cooling system is not pressurised at all.. It's pumped round the system but is not pumped at pressure

I read lots into it for the previous turbo I bought, the main reason for the water jacket is to radiate the head out of the centre cartridge and shaft after your stop running the car.. As the oil will no longer be moving and cooling the turbo.. So initially the temp in the turbo raises

So the water helps to keep it cool and stop the oil I the turbo burning onto the shaft and causing.. As in the link "coking". Which can
Cause debris and wear at an accelerated rate

12th September 2012, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Your taking it out of context.. The cooling system is not pressurised at all.. It's pumped round the system but is not pumped at pressure

I read lots into it for the previous turbo I bought, the main reason for the water jacket is to radiate the head out of the centre cartridge and shaft after your stop running the car.. As the oil will no longer be moving and cooling the turbo.. So initially the temp in the turbo raises

So the water helps to keep it cool and stop the oil I the turbo burning onto the shaft and causing.. As in the link "coking". Which can
Cause debris and wear at an accelerated rate

Ok I get it, so in fact this is not correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by boz

my turbo is dead because the water feed and return were in the wrong place and not working.

It doesn't matter in what place the lines are connected as long as it is possible to circulate coolant, right?

12th September 2012, 14:38

some water will syphon naturally because of temperature differences from the water in the turbo water pipes to the rest of the cooling system. However, it's better for the turbo to receive "forced", cool(er) water of course.

I haven't read Boz's example above, but it's possible the water wasn't circulating at all due to a plumbing issue.

This year I am running a separate cooling circuit for the turbo on it's own. Own pump, flow meter, and rad. No arguments from the turbo when you stuff it's face with cool water (even after ignition off)

25th September 2012, 20:02

If runing no heater matrix would it be ok to feed the turbo from the "redundant" matrix hoses ??

25th September 2012, 20:16

Most run from the matrix hoses as its easiest place to rob from lol

25th September 2012, 20:40

So thats a yes then lol??

The way i see it the turbo would just replace the matrix.... But would it need a restrictor.. How much restriction is there within the turbo?

I currently have a restrictor in the matrix bypass to stop the coolant taki the easy route and bypassing the raidiator

25th September 2012, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

I read lots into it for the previous turbo I bought, the main reason for the water jacket is to radiate the head out of the centre cartridge and shaft after your stop running the car.. As the oil will no longer be moving and cooling the turbo.. So initially the temp in the turbo raises

So the water helps to keep it cool and stop the oil I the turbo burning onto the shaft and causing.. As in the link "coking". Which can
Cause debris and wear at an accelerated rate

So why are you restricting the flow to the heater matrix - all you need is water in the pipes circulating.

It also makes sense that the manufacturers use water straight from the engine as per the 3SGTE and the DOHC diagram.

I've installed a seperate feed from the thermostat housing to the turbo, then used a Y connector to plumb back into the feed from thermostat to heater matrix.

It might be hot water from the engine going to the turbo but it seems that is the way to do it.

This is exactly how colin has done it but used a tee - my preference is to use a Y.

25th September 2012, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cam

And a 3SGTE that killed its botterm end (just toke this picture)

Add on here the sump lol

irrelevant.

25th September 2012, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by e8_pqck

So why are you restricting the flow to the heater matrix - all you need is water in the pipes circulating.

It also makes sense that the manufacturers use water straight from the engine as per the 3SGTE and the DOHC diagram.

I've installed a seperate feed from the thermostat housing to the turbo, then used a Y connector to plumb back into the feed from thermostat to heater matrix.

It might be hot water from the engine going to the turbo but it seems that is the way to do it.

This is exactly how colin has done it but used a tee - my preference is to use a Y.

#

not sure i fully understand what your asking mate

but im not restricting the flow to the matrix

the restrictor is fitted solely to persuade the water to pass through the turbo..rather then taking the route of least resistance..ie into the matrix without passing through turbo

25th September 2012, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

some This year I am running a separate cooling circuit for the turbo on it's own. Own pump, flow meter, and rad. No arguments from the turbo when you stuff it's face with cool water (even after ignition off)

ive been thinking of doing this for years as thats how the AMG mercs run there superchargers

8th October 2012, 11:14

Going to be ordering the parts needed for the feed and return.

Should I get brass or plastic t pieces?

Going to be using this hose-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-Metre-Si...#ht_1105wt_862

16th December 2012, 15:20

If the water feed is coming from the heater matrix and out before the thermostat, will there be less coolant going into thermostat, would this matter or would it cause problems?

For the return going to lower radiator hose if used the same size t piece as the coolant hose say 13mm ID, would this cause a restiction on the coolant coming out of the radiator?

Ive seen some put the feed and return between the matrix and thermostat.

17th December 2012, 12:06

renaults = volvo,s and other cars use a little bosch pump which is controlled by ecu to keep running after engine is stopped to cool the turbo
this is the correct way to do it
use decicated pump and link to heater hoses
new pump is about £50 if you cannot find a s/h unit .
link to your turbo timer if you have one --or to a spare output on your ecu
the hose size for these pumps is 16mm --same as your heater hoses

14th March 2013, 14:52

Does anyone know if the plastic/nylon t piece fittings will be ok for turbo coolant use? I cant find any the correct size i need in brass (15/16mm x 8mm x 15/16mm).

14th March 2013, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Does anyone know if the plastic/nylon t piece fittings will be ok for turbo coolant use? I can find any the correct size i need in brass (15/16mm x 8mm x 15/16mm).

IIRC, I ran plastic ones on my first build and didn't have any problems.

14th March 2013, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

IIRC, I ran plastic ones on my first build and didn't have any problems.

Ahh thats alrite then. Im guessing they would of been but just wasnt 100% sure. Just to find some 8mm banjos that are decent quality too rather than 13mm thats currently on my turbo, Just changing to 8mm for piece of mind really although danny (his old turbo) said 13mm is fine.

14th March 2013, 15:14

I ran plastic on my original set up before I went to copper and brass

No issues

14th March 2013, 15:17

Where have you 2 got you metal t pieces from? Id rather metal tbh.

14th March 2013, 15:18

Local hydraulic engineering place

14th March 2013, 16:07

You can use the yorkshire type plumbing fittings, the hose pushes over them lovely. And they have a ridge to hold the hose securely.

14th March 2013, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Where have you 2 got you metal t pieces from? Id rather metal tbh.

Search "barbed tee" on eBay dude followed by the size there's brass ones on there

14th March 2013, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01amatti

Search "barbed tee" on eBay dude followed by the size there's brass ones on there

Item number 140665938044 might do ya

14th March 2013, 17:28

Thanks, i'll have a look now.

Regarding the restrictor to push the coolant towards the turbo rather than past it. If i make a 15-16mm round piece of metal, what size hole should i use in the middle? Dont want something too big or yet be too small.

14th March 2013, 17:32

As long as its smaller than the original hose your tee'ing from then the water will follow the path of least resistance I.e the bigger hole towards your turbo

14th March 2013, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 01amatti

As long as its smaller than the original hose your tee'ing from then the water will follow the path of least resistance I.e the bigger hole towards your turbo

So say im using a 8mm hose if i put a 5-6mm hole in for instance that should be ok?

14th March 2013, 19:50

Not sure on size mate best thing to do is plumb it in, fire the engine up and see how much water is passing through the turbo pipes, if you want more put a restrictor in if that's too much increase the restrictor hole size

I've been floating around these turbo threads for a while now as I'm doing my own turbo build and have not started the plumbing yet, when I do I plan to steal Ross's idea and use a separate circuit for the turbo with its own header tank an d a small rad then use a Bosch pump to circulate the water round

11th May 2013, 11:09

Made a little round nylon restrictor at work a while ago, made it 16mm OD and a 5-6mm ID hole iirc. Should work nicely!

Just to get this correct, does the coolant flow out from the thermostat backwards to the heater matrix?

16th May 2013, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Made a little round nylon restrictor at work a while ago, made it 16mm OD and a 5-6mm ID hole iirc. Should work nicely!

Just to get this correct, does the coolant flow out from the thermostat backwards to the heater matrix?

Other way round, the coolant goes towards the front of the car through the stat then into the radiaator

5th August 2013, 14:52

Just double checking ive got this correct-

The coolant comes out to the heater matrix line from the front side of the head rather than from the back of the engine to matrix hose.

Just making sure ive got the feed and return to correct t piece if fitted in the matrix hose.