low compression 1.8 stroker kit

2nd September 2012, 22:38

as title says anybody using one and worth the money over forging a 1600?

2nd September 2012, 22:58

see it argued you can get the same power from normal forged engine..

but when you get a forged crank as well..thats more reliable to start..not to mention lower spool times due to the higher CC..and more power at less boost..so less stress/heat to a degree..more power from a smaller turbo..

i know there are a few out there..but tried to find some builds a while back and couldnt

lots of the greek and turkish build use them

would love to read up on it

2nd September 2012, 23:19

yeah i would like to read up on it im undecided on a k24 powered 205 rallye or 1800 stroker tu engine with boost

2nd September 2012, 23:24

both would be diff

but it would be good to see a stroker build like that catalogued on a uk site..

2nd September 2012, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

both would be diff

but it would be good to see a stroker build like that catalogued on a uk site..

+1 to this! would love to read about it on here

2nd September 2012, 23:38

which one is recomended kam racing or cituning few trips offshore should have me it

2nd September 2012, 23:43

kam does the ZRP stuff??..which is rated quite high abroad from what ive seen

and the service and support youll get should be 1000 times better then cituning.. should you need any back up..

from what ive read dp and cituning have long waits and shit service.

2nd September 2012, 23:52

sounds good

2nd September 2012, 23:57

will both be going in a 205? if so just use the gti6 lump and turbo that.

3rd September 2012, 00:40

Yeah both would be only reason I'm not going Xu is I don't know them at all its me selling the lazer green turbo on gti drivers welshpug

3rd September 2012, 08:02

Thats a stupid reason tbh :lol:

3rd September 2012, 08:15

the stroker kits are a VAST amount of money for minimal gain. Can make 95% of the power/torque they make on a regular forged engine. Is that 5% or whatever worth the extra money?

Standard cranks are good for 400+bhp easily and really are the last component to worry about. If you're chasing a huge pub figure, sure go for it, other than that, why bother frankly.

Waste of money imo, and moves you into different classes for time attack/drag competition - including into the 1.8t class where you're up against the vag boys making 700-800hp from 1.8's, something you'll never get out of the TU.

3rd September 2012, 08:32

before you even consider this you need ot consdier the use of the car
Is it road use -PURE drag racing or circuit ?
and if changing to a honda unti will that be complete engine + g/box or just engine?
what is bhp target + what is your budget ?
2 or 4 wheel drive?

3rd September 2012, 08:46

Agree with what Ross has said and I would add that I'm suspicious of the quality of the kits I've seen so far. The piston choice certainly wouldn't be mine for a start. I've never seen the standard crank as a problem and increasing the stroke brings a raft of issues with it.

3rd September 2012, 09:57

I will add that i agree with both sandy + ross
the ultimate limiting factor of the TU engine is the bore spacing and to then make the thickness between the bores even less + boost is asking for trouble
you can get all the power the block can take for continuos use from std bore + stroke .
you must remember these turkish turbo men only run the engine at these silly power levels for a few seconds at a time when drag racing .
that is why I asked what your bhp target is and how you intend to use it

3rd September 2012, 12:18

Interesting reads

So that said.. Would your opinion change if it were an n/a set up??

3rd September 2012, 12:40

Mine wouldn't. I'm sure these kits will be used to produce numbers, friendly rolling road numbers most likely! The old adage "No substitute for cubes" is applied to freely, without any counter points of wear, blow by, potential sudden fracture failure, whether or not the head can be ported to suit a bigger engine etc.

There's a long stroke steel OE crank that can be modified to fit, I've got one here, but it won't be done in a customer's engine any time soon, because I'm not convinced it will be reliable. If you're happy to invest the £10k+ needed to build a proper engine with these mediocre quality parts and chance that it might be reliable, durable and more powerful than a really will built 82mm stroke engine, then you're a brave Guinea Pig IMO.

3rd September 2012, 14:48

I doubt anyone has inspected the ZRP kit for quality in the UK, but they use Wossner pistons which certainly Sandy has not had great experience of. Its not the same company as the old DP brand (they stopped making cranks anyway). Parts are available individually if you want to stroke the car and use your own spec pistons.

It depends what you want really. Yes there are more stresses involved with a stroked engine, but the idea is you don't rev as high to produce the same power and spool time is quicker but people like Ross has shown that big power is achievable without stroking.
A larger capacity turbo is going to be easier to drive. Sadly short of learning Greek and trawling some foreign forums you are not going to learn a lot on how these kits hold up. We have sold 2 kits I think in the UK and one of them was for a Normally aspirated car.

Personally I'd rather fit a VAG 1.8 turbo engine and gearbox in than bother stroking and turbo'ing a TU engine. Its probably a simpler job and the off-the-shelf components are designed to work together far better than trying to get the MA clutch and gearbox beefed up for the task. Its cheaper overall as well....

3rd September 2012, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

Personally I'd rather fit a VAG 1.8 turbo engine and gearbox in than bother stroking and turbo'ing a TU engine. Its probably a simpler job and the off-the-shelf components are designed to work together far better than trying to get the MA clutch and gearbox beefed up for the task. Its cheaper overall as well....

And now you're just stealing my 2013 idea

3rd September 2012, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

And now you're just stealing my 2013 idea

You can stroke those to 2.1 lmao

3rd September 2012, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

You can stroke those to 2.1 lmao

No need go that far

My engine builder JP is the godfather of the VAG lumps. Made 750bhp from the 1.8T two years ago. Fucking madness !

Edit to add: was stroked, but only to 2l iirc.

10.6 at the pod anyone?

3rd September 2012, 15:46

10.6... Should be making that with fwd

Also, you are aware that stroking isn't done for more peak power.. That's the last on the tick list when building a stroked motor..

3rd September 2012, 16:24

Why even bother with the vag lump when you could go stroked duratec lump or k20/k24/k26

3rd September 2012, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

10.6... Should be making that with fwd

Also, you are aware that stroking isn't done for more peak power.. That's the last on the tick list when building a stroked motor..

Pity the "tuners" can do that eh.

torque/spool are the important factors imo. I've not spoken to JP about the golf above specifically but believe it's not stroked more for reliability issues.

3rd September 2012, 16:45

I'm generalising it, stroking is a common tuning method in many different engines.. Look at Evo's for example, they stroke to a 2.3 and it gives huge spool advantage with big turbos. I appreciate you spec the engine for the desired goal so stroking is not always the best way..
Vag lump with their STRONG gearboxs is the way to go I reckon

3rd September 2012, 16:46

1850cc lump

3rd September 2012, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

I'm generalising it, stroking is a common tuning method in many different engines.. Look at Evo's for example, they stroke to a 2.3 and it gives huge spool advantage with big turbos. I appreciate you spec the engine for the desired goal so stroking is not always the best way..
Vag lump with their STRONG gearboxs is the way to go I reckon

i had a feeling this was the direction you were taking danny

is it so?

the 1.8 20vt is a great engine..been voted one of the top ten most tuneable engines

3rd September 2012, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

i had a feeling this was the direction you were taking danny

is it so?

the 1.8 20vt is a great engine..been voted one of the top ten most tuneable engines

They are great engines for sure, my only gripe with them is they're a little heavy.. Gearbox is bulky too, but nothing that couldn't be sorted out.

3rd September 2012, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

They are great engines for sure, my only gripe with them is they're a little heavy.. Gearbox is bulky too, but nothing that couldn't be sorted out.

The 6 speed boxes are weak too, better to stick to the 5 speed if going decent power.

3rd September 2012, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by RossDagley

The 6 speed boxes are weak too, better to stick to the 5 speed if going decent power.

I'd rather have a 6speed box and less power. If your spending big money on big power surely a PPG gearkit wouldn't be a problem?

Anyway, I'd rather have both

3rd September 2012, 19:33

Oh god yeah, I'd rather have both too of course. I think JP's definition of "weak" is probably "400+hp" so they're still ok, just not rugged enough for the monster spec types.

5th September 2012, 09:04

Sorry but we dont have a 1.8 turbo TU İn Turkey, May be there is one but it is not the fastest for sure.
You could watch the fastest 2 wheel drive in Turkey. its is 1.6

16th September 2012, 12:35

Power wise I'm aiming for 450 500 car will be a track car going for a dp kit but noticed the turbo is only good for 450 is there any better kits than the dp

16th September 2012, 12:54

Be better off going for a custom made kit mate

Use a good exhaust place it'll probs be cheaper, the Dp kits seem to have trouble with the manifold warping

16th September 2012, 13:14

Speak to this man, http://www.nortechperformance.com/

he will make you a much nicer manifold to your requirements and probably cheaper too.. He was going to make my manifold before things changed.
If it's used for trackdays then the 1.6 might struggle to spool up a turbo big enough to flow 500hp so you will probably be quicker with a better suited turbo. If it's a fun thing then yea, whack a huge turbo on

it's sure to give you a big smile.
If you don't mind waiting for the 'best' then try and get yourself a Borg warner EFR.. Much much better than the garrets and pretty much anything else out there.. This was the setup I would have run if I kept my car and I know it would make a KILLER setup if someone did it

16th September 2012, 13:22

If its for track car you'd probs be better at about 350bhp really

Theres only so much you can use in a Saxo/106

And you'd probs be able to drive the 350bhp car much quicker them you could the 450+ car

17th September 2012, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Speak to this man, http://www.nortechperformance.com/

he will make you a much nicer manifold to your requirements and probably cheaper too.. He was going to make my manifold before things changed.
If it's used for trackdays then the 1.6 might struggle to spool up a turbo big enough to flow 500hp so you will probably be quicker with a better suited turbo. If it's a fun thing then yea, whack a huge turbo on

it's sure to give you a big smile.
If you don't mind waiting for the 'best' then try and get yourself a Borg warner EFR.. Much much better than the garrets and pretty much anything else out there.. This was the setup I would have run if I kept my car and I know it would make a KILLER setup if someone did it

Nortech made the manifolds on my mates drag cars, very nice work tbh,
I wouldn't bother with the efr's just yet,
So many an bursting their compressor wheels etc a lot of issue for them to sort out first,
Garrett gtx range seem to be making awesome results.

17th September 2012, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbomad

Power wise I'm aiming for 450 500 car will be a track car going for a dp kit but noticed the turbo is only good for 450 is there any better kits than the dp

I know this going to cause trouble but !!!!
even if you can get a relaible 450bhp --which i do not belive is possible --not for a trackcar --have you got another £10000+ for a gearbox to take that sort of power .
all these very high power turbo cars are used for drag racing --that means 10secs of full power -not 60 minutes of full power.
If you used the DS3/mini turbo turbo engine as a base i believe it is possible with that --ring me to discuss
I can promise you that if you do build such a saxo engined car that it will not last 30 minutes at a time at that sort of power .
I know because i have done it and spent a lot of time + many engines trying to perfect a bullet proof 400 bhp saxo engine --It cannot be done as the block will not take the heat for anything other than very short bursts of power .
any of the dyno runs you have seen on any forums never show the engines HOLDING 400+bhp for aything other than a couple of milliseconds at most --when you can show me a dyno run that shows one holding anything like 400+ bhp for 20 seconds + i may start to believe it,but I know you won,t
i
in reality anything at that sort of power level is not drivable in 2 front wd form if you do anything but go straight -
with 300bhp @ wheels I got wheelspin when flattening the throtle in top gear at 100mph --and that was with a mere 1.2bar of boost on my s/c car ---- a drag car is a totally dif animal to a track car
cut back you target and spend the money on buying the RIGHT,it will not be cheap ,turbo and spend alot of money on the ecu and turbo control system so you can at least use all the power you have or settle for more a drivable option
anything over 250@wheels on 2 wheel drive is an animal to drive quickly on a track

17th September 2012, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazza808

Nortech made the manifolds on my mates drag cars, very nice work tbh,
I wouldn't bother with the efr's just yet,
So many an bursting their compressor wheels etc a lot of issue for them to sort out first,
Garrett gtx range seem to be making awesome results.

The first FEW efr's had problems which were quickly rectified. Now they are having huge success in America and making a much better turbo than 'specials' twice their cost. They have soo many advantages when compared with 95% of other turbos.

Check out the sierra sierra evo, this will back up what I have just said.