3 Plug - Mapping with bodies + Injectors

  1. Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 Doyncaster Posts: 783
    #1
    I have a 2001 VTS - 3 Plug ECU.

    Having purchased, AT speed throttle bodies, 182 injectors, 4-2-1 manifold and 708 cams.
    There will be NO more engine modifications made in the future.

    I then need it mapping. The wealth of info on here points to Wayne @ Chipwizards who is the only one capable of making this happen.

    After failing to get in touch 3 times, I wondered if anyone can answer on his behalf:

    Can the 3-plug be mapped successfully to the modifications listed in bold?

    As there is no future plan to go further with the ECU or engine components, I am keen to keep costs lower and thus shy away from any single plug conversion or standalone ecu - although the 3 plug market looks a little scarce for 3 plug stand alones.
  2. Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.
    #2
    once you go standalone (with the exception of the predator which is custom made to fit the single plug cars) then it matters not whether your car is single or three plug - standalone replaces both.

    Wayne can be difficult to get hold of, but as I understand it is the only one who can map a 3-plug car. Others can map the single plug however.

    Yes, Wayne cam map the standard ECU to include your desired mods
  3. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2011 Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 7779 Phase 2 VTS , E61 M5
    #3
    there's someone in boro that can map the standard ECU, I'll try and remember who!
  4. Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.
    #4
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MuZiZZle View Post
    there's someone in boro that can map the standard ECU, I'll try and remember who!
    On the 3-plug Muz? That's interesting. Wayne doesn't make any effort to squash the rumor he's the only one who maps 3-plugs.
  5. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2011 Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 7779 Phase 2 VTS , E61 M5
    #5
    http://www.automarkuk.com/services.php
  6. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2011 Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 7779 Phase 2 VTS , E61 M5
    #6
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    On the 3-plug Muz? That's interesting. Wayne doesn't make any effort to squash the rumor he's the only one who maps 3-plugs.
    slimwiltaz had his done there the other month
  7. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2007 Someones Bumhole Posts: 5721 Mk2 16v Desire
    #7
    Yea there is quite a few aside from wayne that can do it but i think what ross means is that wayne is the only one who can do it with throttle boddies. slimwatz only had cam's, ive not heard of anybody else mapping standard ecu with throttle boddies. i wouldnt want to personally.
  8. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #8
    wayne is your man --and he is possibly closest being in milrow rochdale
  9. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B
    #9
    Mark from the above link is allegedly good mates with wayne, and does a good job of mapping 3 plugs

    It would not surprise me at all if he could map your 3 plug for bodies, give him a call
  10. Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802
    #10
    I make a 3 plug 'plug and play' standalone. Complete Ecu replacement with no wiring involved at all, so easy to put back to standard later.

  11. Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 Doyncaster Posts: 783
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by luthor1 View Post
    I make a 3 plug 'plug and play' standalone. Complete Ecu replacement with no wiring involved at all, so easy to put back to standard later.
    I dont throughly understand what you are saying.
  12. Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 Doyncaster Posts: 783
    #12
    Wayne has replied (via someone else) so many thanks anyway.
    I will also give Mark a call - it never hurts to compare.
  13. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sri_130 View Post
    I dont throughly understand what you are saying.
    seems very clear to me --you unplug your std ecu and plug the predator onto the std loom --
    2 users thanked this post: ,
  14. Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 Doyncaster Posts: 783
    #14
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by axsaxoman View Post
    seems very clear to me --you unplug your std ecu and plug the predator onto the std loom --
    Why couldn't he have said that.
    That, I can understand.
  15. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sri_130 View Post
    Why couldn't he have said that.
    That, I can understand.
    plug and play - no wiring needed...

    He did.
  16. Frequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 Doyncaster Posts: 783
    #16
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
    plug and play - no wiring needed...

    He did.
    Let's agree to disagree. I didn't see that in the text - with a simple brain like mine.
  17. Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802
    #17
    Sorry to confuse! Yes you just unplug your standard ECU and plug mine on to the standard loom and my ECU fits in the original position and mounts in the standard location with the standard little bolts!

    Then you just go and start mapping, couldn't be easier!
  18. Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.
    #18
    And you are confirming you can now supply 3 plug ECU's Andy?
  19. Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802
    #19
    yeah I have been able to for ages now, I had a thread going in my affiliate area when I was one, but nobody really went for it. Couple of people did though!

    Andy
  20. Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 576
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 View Post
    Mark from the above link is allegedly good mates with wayne, and does a good job of mapping 3 plugs

    It would not surprise me at all if he could map your 3 plug for bodies, give him a call
    Mark is a sound and knowledgeable guy, I'm sure he'd work out what's needed but if he can't I'd have no problem helping him out with it.

    Some of your dash won't work if you swap your ECU for an aftermarket one, and you no longer have the luxury of stock diagnostics etc...
  21. Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.
    #21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chipwizards View Post
    Mark is a sound and knowledgeable guy, I'm sure he'd work out what's needed but if he can't I'd have no problem helping him out with it.

    Some of your dash won't work if you swap your ECU for an aftermarket one, and you no longer have the luxury of stock diagnostics etc...
    Oh Wayne. I was so pleased to see you in the thread until I read this. We both know that's basically utter tosh.

    Everything on the dash will still work if the standalone is wired correctly. The luxury of stock diagnostics? Yeah. Ok. What is it going to diagnose on a boddied cammed engine? Eml on for emissions? Give over...
  22. Frequent Poster Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 576
    #22
    The temp gauge won't work for starters, which most people feel is fairly important. The address in the ECU code for the water temperature output variable is 0602F0h. The data is 16-bit but the output resulution is 10-bit, giving 1024 'seps', which makes decimal conversion easy.

    I suppose megasquirt works the same way, does it?

    On a bodied engine it will diagnose everything the same as a stock engine, save for the MAP, which isn't used of course. Throttle angle, rpm, temperatures of intake and water, dwell angle, lambda values, actual ignition output, injector duty and lots of other stuff I'm getting too bored to type....

    Just supposing you decide to go for a trip to the 'Ring and somewhere halfway there you get a problem. You go to any local garage with basic diagnostic equipment, they plug in, read the codes, look at the data and most likely will be able to fix your problem with locally sourced parts.

    With an aftermarket ECU they open the bonnet see what ECU is on it and, unless they happen to have the appropriate comm's lead, a laptop with the appropriate port, and the appropriate version of software (of which there are lots), you're not even going to have the option of looking at any diagnostics, if the ECU even supports self-diagnosis of course.

    Why not just save yourself the embarrassment of getting into an ECU argument with me? Megasquirt/DIY-EFI/VEMS/Predator and all its other incarnations are a valiant effort for the do-it-yourselfer to have a go at making and programming an ECU that will run an engine. It is not a professional solution.

    It's the only family of ECU that I refuse to map because my time is too valuable to waste any more of.
  23. Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802
    #23
    What a load of garbage!
  24. Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.
    #24
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chipwizards View Post
    The temp gauge won't work for starters, which most people feel is fairly important. The address in the ECU code for the water temperature output variable is 0602F0h. The data is 16-bit but the output resulution is 10-bit, giving 1024 'seps', which makes decimal conversion easy.
    Wrong. Every Omex I've seen (4 of them, including my own) has had temperature working correctly on the standard dash. You wire it correctly, job done. What else wont work? As I posted - everything works when you wire it in correctly.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chipwizards View Post
    Why not just save yourself the embarrassment of getting into an ECU argument with me?
    You really want to go there Wayne? You're wrong. Your statements in this very thread prove your ignorance of other products. You've dug your own hole here pal, I'm not helping you get out of it. Do you really think I wont disagree with your BLATANT errors because you think you're a big fish in a small pond? Get over yourself.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chipwizards View Post
    Megasquirt/DIY-EFI/VEMS/Predator and all its other incarnations are a valiant effort for the do-it-yourselfer to have a go at making and programming an ECU that will run an engine. It is not a professional solution.

    It's the only family of ECU that I refuse to map because my time is too valuable to waste any more of.
    Then you're an idiot. Many professional mappers gladly use a megasquirt product. You're naive to think you know it all, especially in the world of mapping when there's others out there that re FAR higher regarded than you can ever dream of becoming that disagree with you entirely.
  25. Super Moderator Joined: Feb 2004 Tonbridge United Kingdom (England) Posts: 38236 Vtr, 172, throttle bodied track slut
    #25
    Temperature seems to work on my emerald too.

    So we have another ecu showing temp......
  26. Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802
    #26
    ...and yes although I've said it before, I'll say it again, temp gauge works on the Predator too
  27. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #27
    there is only a problem with the 3plug ecu type cars with the later type instrument cluster which has an ecu in it and the signal is not just a variable voltage but also its a variable frequency as well.
    and its only with the water temp -no problem with the single plug type cars
    some stand alne ecus don,t even like the later type throttle pot fitted to the later cars
  28. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #28
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by luthor1 View Post
    ...and yes although I've said it before, I'll say it again, temp gauge works on the Predator too
    but you will you also agree that it is not the same as the single plug cars.
  29. West Midlands Joined: Dec 2007 West mids Posts: 23149 Supra,civic GL
    #29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by axsaxoman View Post
    there is only a problem with the 3plug ecu type cars with the later type instrument cluster which has an ecu in it and the signal is not just a variable voltage but also its a variable frequency as well.
    and its only with the water temp -no problem with the single plug type cars
    some stand alne ecus don,t even like the later type throttle pot fitted to the later cars
    my late 3 plug 106 with the digi clocks ran an omex 600 and had no temp guage issues
  30. Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.
    #30
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AlexB View Post
    my late 3 plug 106 with the digi clocks ran an omex 600 and had no temp guage issues
    Ditto... Ditto with Titch too.
  31. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Sep 2007 Someones Bumhole Posts: 5721 Mk2 16v Desire
    #31
    Hmmm got to say ive not seen any dash problems with emerald in 306/106/205/406 yadayada.
  32. Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802
    #32
    I think, to be fair to Wayne, he is now stuck making arguments that simply don't exist anymore. Nobody is impressed these days by being able to 're-chip' the stock ECU, they want more. The Predator just 'plugging in' has now become the norm and slightly mundane, that's what people want. They want 'surprise and delight'! I've got to think of new features and functions to WOW people again.

    It's like the iPhone5, it's just brilliant, but there is still disappointment. I think Wayne needs to discover some more surprise and delight because remapping the stock ECU now just looks restrictive and expensive and offers no real benefit over aftermarket anymore, but initially it did I'll grant that, but things have moved on somewhat. They all operate the dashboard, they all have frankly ridiculous levels of diagnostics to test the engines components, that's not a strong enough argument anymore, and the 'tone' of the way Wayne talks just demonstrates his frustration.
  33. Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.
    #33
    Andy, thanks for the measured reply.

    I'm closing the thread as I think it's turned into an argument basically, and that defeats the purpose of the OP's original enquiry.

    To the OP - there are many options available to you for mapping a 3-plug car on bodies. From using the standard ECU through to aftermarket replacements. There are pro's and con's of both solutions, and I'd urge you to research some more before making a decision.