which engine have i bought?

23rd October 2012, 19:05

ive decided to do a turbo conversion on my saxo vtr, but basically, ive bought another 8v engine so i could rebuild it and get all the bits i need until its nearly time to drop in. But im unsure as to what engine i have bought. i know its the later roller rocker engine, (it turned up today) but the oil fitler has a screw on type other than the paper element type. I dont know if whoever had it before went to the mk1 setup or i have a different engine to whats in my vtr at the moment. How do i find out if it is the same as the one i currently have, as i dont want to find out i need a different wiring harness..

its my fault really for not checking all these things out before i bought it.
thanks

23rd October 2012, 19:09

Are the inlet ports grouped in 2s or spaced out equally?

23rd October 2012, 19:10

weres the lambda ? in the middle of the exhaust manifold if so its the 98bhp mk2 aslo has a cat on the manifold ? and also the dipstick if its on the edge of the manifold on the right side it's the 90bhp model mk1 underfloor cat , with labda on the down pipe , easyest way imo , others will have different sayings

23rd October 2012, 19:11

i think its grouped in 2s, the engine is at work so i cant check atm and the pics i took earlier are a bit blurry :/

23rd October 2012, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgin2011

weres the lambda ? in the middle of the exhaust manifold if so its the 98bhp mk2 aslo has a cat on the manifold ? and also the dipstick if its on the edge of the manifold on the right side it's the 90bhp model mk1 underfloor cat , with labda on the down pipe , easyest way imo , others will have different sayings

i know its a later engine as it has the roller rockers, just dont know if i have bought an engine that had a 1 plug ECU, or if it actually matters?

23rd October 2012, 19:30

23rd October 2012, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

i know its a later engine as it has the roller rockers, just dont know if i have bought an engine that had a 1 plug ECU, or if it actually matters?

if im right 1 plugs are all 90bhp 3 plug 98bhp ,thats deffo a mk1 90bhp engine 100% you can tell were the dipstick is

23rd October 2012, 19:39

it defo 100% has roller rockers, i removed the head just before i left work tho :/

23rd October 2012, 19:44

yeah 1998 and 1999 90bhp are roller rockers i think its 2000 were the 98bhp comes in and still uses the roller rockers , ive got a 1998 vtr 90bhp and thats roller rockers. i think just the black tops dont have roller rockers , there the earliest , like 1997 ,

23rd October 2012, 19:44

Looks like its a 90bhp silvertop
Roller rocker engine

If you want further confirmation, take a close up of the front of the block and post it here

Edit- they were also 2000 model, 3 plugs started late 2000/2001

Did you buy it off eBay?

23rd October 2012, 19:46

bollocks! just my luck haha...
when i take the close up, what am i looking to take a picture of?

23rd October 2012, 19:48

[QUOTE=blackie_2k5;6132223]

Edit- they were also 2000 model, 3 plugs started late 2000/2001

i got you i thought it was the start of 2000 were the 3 plugs came in

23rd October 2012, 19:50

yeah, it was from ebay..

23rd October 2012, 19:52

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Sa...80964669213%26

23rd October 2012, 19:53

Mainly just around and above the metal oil filter

Get a decent close up of the front of block

It will 100% confirm it.. But I'm 95% sure it's a 90bhp silver top anyway...

Always possible it a 3 plug block that's been modded to fit a single plug set up, it may have had a mk1 dipstick set up fitted... But it's unlikely really

Pic will confirm

There is also codes on the block iirc, but I don't know them

23rd October 2012, 19:54

yeah its the mk1 90bhp tell by the throttle body also . it tells you its the 1997 on the description

23rd October 2012, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-Sa...80964669213%26

Thought so

I emailed him a while back to tell him it won't fit a car after 2000 without hassle so he should change his listing and got into an argument with him ( he clearly knows best as he's a breaker :/ )

Leave him neg feed back for listing it incorrectly.. That'll Piss him off..

23rd October 2012, 19:57

says 97-03

whats the difference between the early silvertops 90bhp ones and the later ones?

23rd October 2012, 19:59

Roller rockers, head porting...

23rd October 2012, 19:59

8bhp , can not notice the difference in the 2 , i think its the mapping , the cat in the mani the throttlebody and head porting ect.. silly little things tbh , but ebay people dont list things like this if its 1997 model engine it will not fit in a 03 car because the have different looms and ecu 90bhp with single plug and 98bhp with 3 plug you would have to change the loom and ecu .

23rd October 2012, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Thought so

I emailed him a while back to tell him it won't fit a car after 2000 without hassle so he should change his listing and got into an argument with him ( he clearly knows best as he's a breaker :/ )

Leave him neg feed back for listing it incorrectly.. That'll Piss him off..

its not just that, it took 2 weeks for it to arrive lol.. so much for 48hr courier!
is it worth me sending it back?
or shall i perservere?

23rd October 2012, 20:00

The inlet and tb, most inlet sensors are different, the ex mani is different, the dipstick set up is different, the oil filter is different

The later ones run higher compression pistons the head layout is different

23rd October 2012, 20:01

its the same exhaust mani as whats on mine, with the lambda sensor on top and the cat in the mani..

23rd October 2012, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

its not just that, it took 2 weeks for it to arrive lol.. so much for 48hr courier!
is it worth me sending it back?
or shall i perservere?

If I were you (becuause I know how much of a cock he is..

I'd email him saying your mechanic has tried to put it in your 52 plate car and all I listed above is different so you inlet etc doesn't fit

Tell him you want your money back.. He'll proba just refund you as it'll cost him more to get the engine collected and tell you to keep it

Then just use it for your rebuild

23rd October 2012, 20:03

[QUOTE=greyjasper51;6132246]Roller rockers

thought all silvertops were roller rockers :/ blacktops non roller rocker might be wrong

23rd October 2012, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

its the same exhaust mani as whats on mine, with the lambda sensor on top and the cat in the mani..

What year is your car?

23rd October 2012, 20:04

[quote=burgin2011;6132254]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyjasper51

Roller rockers

thought all silvertops were roller rockers :/ blacktops non roller rocker might be wrong

My bad miss read it, though you were saying between early and later 90bhp

23rd October 2012, 20:04

im a mechanic anyway

and when he said 48hr delivery and it took 2 weeks, i told him i have a car dead on the ramp until it turns up and made him chase the pallet company.
but now i have a wrong engine

23rd October 2012, 20:05

[quote=greyjasper51;6132257]

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgin2011

My bad miss read it, though you were saying between early and later 90bhp

sorry didn't mean to be a clever shit either

23rd October 2012, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

What year is your car?

its a 2003

23rd October 2012, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

im a mechanic anyway

and when he said 48hr delivery and it took 2 weeks, i told him i have a car dead on the ramp until it turns up and made him chase the pallet company.
but now i have a wrong engine

why do some breakers always think they no best ? and then after a argument with a customer or like you blackie in the first case they actually realise there wrong , send it back dude !

23rd October 2012, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

its a 2003

gutted deffo send it back

23rd October 2012, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgin2011

why do some breakers always think they no best ? and then after a argument with a customer or like you blackie in the first case they actually realise there wrong , send it back dude !

only thing is tho, is that its going to cost me to send it back to him.. or should i make him pay for it?

23rd October 2012, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

its a 2003

That one shouldn't have the same ex mani as yours then

What was included? Inlet etc as it said on listing it isn't?

23rd October 2012, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

only thing is tho, is that its going to cost me to send it back to him.. or should i make him pay for it?

He's listed it incorrectly

It's on him to pay

23rd October 2012, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

That one shouldn't have the same ex mani as yours then

What was included? Inlet etc as it said on listing it isn't?

pretty much yeah, its got a lambda sensor in the top of the mani.. but has no cat where it had been taken off

23rd October 2012, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

He's listed it incorrectly

It's on him to pay

ill message him and see what he says

23rd October 2012, 20:16

what your engine you brought has the lambda on the top of mani ? it confuses thing if it has lol

23rd October 2012, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

ill message him and see what he says

he probably not message you back

23rd October 2012, 20:19

yeah.. the engine i bought, the confusing one, has the same exhaust mani as mine (currently in my car), with a lambda sensor on top of the mani.

23rd October 2012, 20:21

you sure because on the picture the lambda is on the downpipe , and if its a 97 engine , and got a 98bhp manifold it would of had oil filter conversion , dont quote me on that!

23rd October 2012, 20:23

just logged onto com to better advise

dont need close up as can see on com.. 100% a 90bhp silver top 98-00 engine

hes listed it wrongly

if your rebuilding it for turbo..i personally prefer the 90bhp enignes (ill go onto why later on)

but simply..hes in the wrong..it wont fit cars after 2000 without a lot of grief

just email him and tell him youve waited two weeks for a 48 hour delivery with a paying customers car imobile..to be sent an engine that will not fit the car...tell him about he differences listed above..and that its unacceptable

tell him you want a refund or replacement engine dispatched immediatley

then you either get a refund or an engine that matches yours...you may just get a refund and him tell you to keep the engine..in which case you can stiull rebuild it..just find an inlet to match it off here and jobs a good un

23rd October 2012, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgin2011

he probably not message you back

he has too..its a business
id advise opening a ebay dispute straight away..itll freeze his money and he'll want it resolved ASAP

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr91

yeah.. the engine i bought, the confusing one, has the same exhaust mani as mine (currently in my car), with a lambda sensor on top of the mani.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgin2011

you sure because on the picture the lambda is on the downpipe , and if its a 97 engine , and got a 98bhp manifold it would of had oil filter conversion , dont quote me on that!

the mani will still fit..probs just placed it on to play dumb in this instance

the oil filter is already the mk1 set up on a mk1 engine

only need to convert 3 plugs oil filter to mk1 when fitting a mk1 manifold to a 3 plug engine

23rd October 2012, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by burgin2011

you sure because on the picture the lambda is on the downpipe , and if its a 97 engine , and got a 98bhp manifold it would of had oil filter conversion , dont quote me on that!

its defo in the manifold lol.. ill take a pic tomorrow

23rd October 2012, 20:29

[QUOTE=blackie_2k5;6132299]he has too..its a business
id advise opening a ebay dispute straight away..itll freeze his money and he'll want it resolved ASAP

the only trouble is, it didnt go through ebay, i messaged him asking his best price, and he said £130 delivered, so i asked him to send me an invoice via paypal and payed it that way..
can i still open a dispute?

23rd October 2012, 20:31

yeah mate..just open it as a paypal dispute.. use the link to the sale on ebay as a referance

23rd October 2012, 20:32

go into your paypal history...and post up what the invoice sais exactly under what youve bought

eg

"saxo vtr engine"

23rd October 2012, 20:36

this is the best i can find atm

From:

john davies(swbreakers@yahoo.co.uk)

To:

jonathan aldous (jon.boi_86@live.co.uk)

Amount:

£130.00 GBP

Status:

Paid

This request for money or invoice was paid. See the transaction details for more information.

Date Requested:

8 Oct 2012

Subject:

PayPal money request from john davies for saxo vtr 8v engine

Note:

invoice for 1.6 saxo vtr engine including delivery.

23rd October 2012, 21:18

should be able to use the sale listing you messaged him over as means of proof he sent wrong engine..did you keep the messages on ebay?

as theyll help

23rd October 2012, 21:25

all messages are in my ebay still, and im able to open a dispute over paypal if necessays

23rd October 2012, 21:32

just open one anyway mate

it gets his attention and stops him wasting time..you only get a certain amount of time to put a dispute in

23rd October 2012, 21:38

dispute opened

24th October 2012, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

If you want further confirmation, take a close up of the front of the block and post it here

let the guessing begin !

24th October 2012, 20:02

90bhp silver top mate

for some reason you have no oil lever sensor though..like three plugs dont

24th October 2012, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

90bhp silver top mate

for some reason you have no oil lever sensor though..like three plugs dont

Where does that sensor sit on the block? I dont recall my s2 rallye unit having one either just the pressure sensor

24th October 2012, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

90bhp silver top mate

well, so be it, this shall be the turbo charged unit! does it matter about the oil level sensor thingy?

also, im guessing the wiring loom is going to be different to my 3plugger?

24th October 2012, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandi699

Where does that sensor sit on the block? I dont recall my s2 rallye unit having one either just the pressure sensor

big plug on upper left of oil filter opening

and no matey...its a bonus to have but not essential..i had to remove mine anyway

24th October 2012, 20:55

I didnt get that one on mine, however it got the sump temperature sensor instead

24th October 2012, 21:23

vtr or rallye?

all rallyes had oil temp it think?

24th October 2012, 22:37

what loom will i need for this?

24th October 2012, 22:55

should be able to use your loom mate

might have 1 or 2 sensors diff on the inlet. and coilpack plug may be different

easy sorted come the time

if you use the head off your current car then itll be no diff

24th October 2012, 23:03

ill be using the head off the other engine i have just bought, its all been stripped, ive taken the valves out and reground them, just waiting for some uprated valve springs come payday.

11th January 2013, 00:15

The guy who sold you that engine ripped me off too. He even came to my house threatening me after i disputed on paypal!!
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=442507