16v breakdown

  1. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #1
    ok so last week i bought a vts conversion, included was the inlet, exhaust, engine, gearbox, shafts
    unlocked ecu and loom, The engine came from a fully running car that had done 80k.
    For peace of mind, and want of doing my conversion correctly i want to do all service related jobs whilst the engine is out of the car, i am however not a mechanic.

    Tomorrow i will start to dismantle the engine per say as it is all currently together and completely unmanuverable (sp?) i have a few months to do this so can take it as slowly as i like, i am just wondering what is the worst damage i can do in trying to do some of these jobs myself?

    i would like to learn and am keen, but a bit worried about venturing into unknown territory haha!
  2. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH
    #2
    Just take your time and buy a haynes mate. If you get stuck and need a hand give me a shout and ill come and fuck it up for ya for tea and choc lol.

    Also don't drain the oil too early its better to have dirty oil in the engine than no oil. Especially in storage.

    How far are you wanting to go like new clutch lightweight fly? the time the engine is out of the car makes it a good time to build it up to the spec you want.
  3. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bedford126 View Post
    Just take your time and buy a haynes mate. If you get stuck and need a hand give me a shout and ill come and fuck it up for ya for tea and choc lol.

    Also don't drain the oil too early its better to have dirty oil in the engine than no oil. Especially in storage.
    all the tea and biscuits you need mate haha.

    engine was drained for transit, best get some oil in it tomorrow! this i wasnt aware of, so thanks for that

    -edit-
    clutch will be changed certainly mate, lightweight fly i hadnt even thought about!

    my main concern was just a good reliable engine first, my current one is absolutely spot on, so in terms of reliability i dont want to be making a step backwards (touch wood)
  4. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH
    #4
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    all the tea and biscuits you need mate haha.

    engine was drained for transit, best get some oil in it tomorrow! this i wasnt aware of, so thanks for that
    stick some flushing oil in it mate its only cheap. Kust stops condensation forming inside the house / garage n rusting.
  5. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2011 huddersfield Posts: 2635 ph3'd c2 gt
    #5
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    ok so last week i bought a vts conversion, included was the inlet, exhaust, engine, gearbox, shafts
    unlocked ecu and loom, The engine came from a fully running car that had done 80k.
    For peace of mind, and want of doing my conversion correctly i want to do all service related jobs whilst the engine is out of the car, i am however not a mechanic.

    Tomorrow i will start to dismantle the engine per say as it is all currently together and completely unmanuverable (sp?) i have a few months to do this so can take it as slowly as i like, i am just wondering what is the worst damage i can do in trying to do some of these jobs myself?

    i would like to learn and am keen, but a bit worried about venturing into unknown territory haha!
    since the engine is obviously out which makes life a hell of a lot easier change the plugs, but be careful not to cross thread the new plugs when putting them back in

    also would be daft not to do the timing belt whilst is all out , changing it is the easy part but make sure you lock it all off/mark it first so you dont throw the timing out or it'll go boom
    if you dont feel like youre upto it give bedford a shout seen as he aint too far from you

    apart from that not much could go wrong
  6. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #6
    Do the water pump and tensioner/idler, theyre not much fun in situ, especially if the water pump is seized.
  7. Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2011 Hertfordshire Posts: 250 2000 Saxo Woodland Green VTS, 2002 Mazda MX5
    #7
    if your going to strip the whole thing down including the head i'd problem say the worse thing you could do is time it incorrectly, i know a few people who have had the timing out by 180degrees on inlet or exhaust valves costing a fair bit to replace all because they didn't do simple checks, get yourself some dial gauges and a timing wheel for peace mind and ensure you time it correctly (if your stripped the head though)

    also get yourself a torque wrench and haynes manual as some people easily overtighten or undertighten bolts. with bolts where you can do them up finger tight first to prevent cross threading before using a socket and ratchet (spark plugs though are impossible to do finger tight on these engines )
  8. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #8
    haynes manual is on order so hoping that arrives soon!!

    big jobs like timing i wont be doing myself, just not worth it to me to do it wrong!!

    however i will certainly try somethings myself once i have memorised the haynes manual haha.

    also need to buy an engine stand, my back is shot!
  9. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #9
    ok so i had a couple of hours at it earlier, got most of the loom off and all the pipes for radiator etc, also off came the exhaust manifold.

    i have come across a problem though, my uncle kindly took the engine out of my boot and got it into a wheel barrow and trudged it into the garage, its now resting on the gearbox, which i really need off in order to make the whole thing a bit more manouverable and lighter as i need it on an engine stand.

    would i be best off hiring an engine crane to get it onto a stand or could i lift it with a few big blokes?
  10. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH
    #10
    Best way is to man handle it into a old tyre and take the box off then a couple of mates can hold it whilst you put it onto the stand.
  11. Established Member Joined: Aug 2009 King's lynn Posts: 2073 Turbocharged vtr
    #11
    an engine crane does make things so much easier, i bought one off ebay, makes it easier getting it on the stand as well, as well as getting it back in the car
  12. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #12
    cheers lads.
    i have found a stand on ebay good for 350kg apparently and at £40 i cannot complain.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENGINE-STA...item2577f34065

    would it be up to the job?

    i hadn't thought about using a tyre to be fair, but i do have 4 in my garden i need to find a use for lol.
  13. Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI
    #13
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wee_monkey1987 View Post
    if your going to strip the whole thing down including the head i'd problem say the worse thing you could do is time it incorrectly, i know a few people who have had the timing out by 180degrees on inlet or exhaust valves costing a fair bit to replace all because they didn't do simple checks, get yourself some dial gauges and a timing wheel for peace mind and ensure you time it correctly (if your stripped the head though)

    also get yourself a torque wrench and haynes manual as some people easily overtighten or undertighten bolts. with bolts where you can do them up finger tight first to prevent cross threading before using a socket and ratchet (spark plugs though are impossible to do finger tight on these engines )


    Simple checks such as not bending valves if its 180 degree out also the bottom pulley lines up with the casting point on timing side crank bearing housing so how can people do it ?


    I am not picking faults with your comment please don't take it as that I am really interested to know how people can do this
  14. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jul 2010 Morley, Leeds Posts: 8469 Civic ep3 type r powered by TDI NORTH
    #14
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post

    Will work fine that mate its the same as mine will hold a vts lump easy.
  15. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bedford126 View Post
    Will work fine that mate its the same as mine will hold a vts lump easy.
    all i needed to hear mate, thanks.
    going to buy it now then, quicker i can get it in the air the better !!
  16. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2011 huddersfield Posts: 2635 ph3'd c2 gt
    #16
    Good lad
    Gonna start on mine this weekend to get it all prepped etc
    New plugs, strip the head down ready for the cams, changing the timing belt etc getting excited tbh! Can wait to have it all up and running! Going from a ill 75bhp quicky to a cammed 16v lump will be a nice jump
  17. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5
    #17
    You will happily rebuild the engine but wont do the timing!? you could fail just building the engine up to start with.

    All the best just saying.
  18. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.
    #18
    Couple of tips when dismantling an engine,are to always put an old blanket/rag over your cylinder head/block.This stops you dropping any nuts bolts washers etc into the engine.Also block off any exhaust inlet ports as well to stop any crap getting in.
  19. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ali123 View Post
    Good lad
    Gonna start on mine this weekend to get it all prepped etc
    New plugs, strip the head down ready for the cams, changing the timing belt etc getting excited tbh! Can wait to have it all up and running! Going from a ill 75bhp quicky to a cammed 16v lump will be a nice jump
    im taking mine much slower than you are, your like a dog on heat haha

    any luck with your insurance quotes? im thinking mine will go in around renewal time (FEB, BOOO)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevo67 View Post
    Couple of tips when dismantling an engine,are to always put an old blanket/rag over your cylinder head/block.This stops you dropping any nuts bolts washers etc into the engine.Also block off any exhaust inlet ports as well to stop any crap getting in.
    Thanks for the tip, i actually did have a little accident last time i changed the plugs on my furio engine, luckily i had a decent magnet to get the tool bit out.

    from now i always stuff them with newspaper to avoid things falling in!!!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prickle View Post
    You will happily rebuild the engine but wont do the timing!? you could fail just building the engine up to start with.

    All the best just saying.

    please, elaborate..

    Things like water pump, head gasket, plugs (done before) i am happy to have a bash at, especially armed with a haynes manual haha.

    TIMING of the engine however, no, im not, and for that i will be calling on a professional.

    at the end of the day im just giving it a go, i have an engine not in a car, so now is as good a time as ever to learn something new.
  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2011 huddersfield Posts: 2635 ph3'd c2 gt
    #20
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    im taking mine much slower than you are, your like a dog on heat haha

    any luck with your insurance quotes? im thinking mine will go in around renewal time (FEB, BOOO)

    id take it slower too mate but my renewal is on the 5th so trying to get it all done and sorted for then! only thing holding me back is finiding a gti 3 plug loom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and not yet mate, shall be ringing up at the weekend
  21. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #21
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ali123 View Post
    id take it slower too mate but my renewal is on the 5th so trying to get it all done and sorted for then! only thing holding me back is finiding a gti 3 plug loom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and not yet mate, shall be ringing up at the weekend
    get them to quote you for the conversion BEFORE it's in (could that work - explain the situation?) that way you can have a bit more time, if you need it of course lol.

    i take it that lad with the GTI on here didn't sell you his loom? have you had a look on 106oc?
  22. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2011 huddersfield Posts: 2635 ph3'd c2 gt
    #22
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    get them to quote you for the conversion BEFORE it's in (could that work - explain the situation?) that way you can have a bit more time, if you need it of course lol.

    i take it that lad with the GTI on here didn't sell you his loom? have you had a look on 106oc?

    i shall do haha
    and i managed to contact him but he said he's holding back a week or two before he starts breaking it for parts,but i need one asap and i have mate, no luck
    also picking the cams and the mani up on the 30th ready to do the conversion on the 1st/2nd !
    but if i cant get a loom then im gonna have to hold it back till i can get one
  23. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #23
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ali123 View Post
    i shall do haha
    and i managed to contact him but he said he's holding back a week or two before he starts breaking it for parts,but i need one asap and i have mate, no luck
    also picking the cams and the mani up on the 30th ready to do the conversion on the 1st/2nd !
    but if i cant get a loom then im gonna have to hold it back till i can get one
    ahh that's shit !!!

    just get on the internet get some breakers written down and call call call !!!

    http://www.frenchspares.com/index.html

    heres one to get you started
  24. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2011 huddersfield Posts: 2635 ph3'd c2 gt
    #24
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    ahh that's shit !!!

    just get on the internet get some breakers written down and call call call !!!

    http://www.frenchspares.com/index.html

    heres one to get you started
    you babe! ( no homo )

    i genuinly googled french car breakers on separate occasions and couldnt find any for some reason

    but i shall give them a ring tomorrow if i get time!
  25. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ali123 View Post
    you babe! ( no homo )

    i genuinly googled french car breakers on separate occasions and couldnt find any for some reason

    but i shall give them a ring tomorrow if i get time!
    haha no problems mate!

    i will keep my ears to the ground for you!
  26. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2011 huddersfield Posts: 2635 ph3'd c2 gt
    #26
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    haha no problems mate!

    i will keep my ears to the ground for you!
    cheers mate!
    ive just filled in a form on their website about parts and requested a call back
    hopefully they'll have one! even if they arse rape me for it i'll take it!
  27. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2010 Bath Posts: 2577 Saxo VTR
    #27
    As everyone has been saying, get the waterpump and timing belt done! Just done my 16v conversion, 1 day later, waterpump gone
  28. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #28
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ali123 View Post
    cheers mate!
    ive just filled in a form on their website about parts and requested a call back
    hopefully they'll have one! even if they arse rape me for it i'll take it!
    goodluck, best hope they dont read that statement lol..
  29. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shannon-ob View Post
    As everyone has been saying, get the waterpump and timing belt done! Just done my 16v conversion, 1 day later, waterpump gone
    im not trying to be cock saying this, so dont take it the wrong way BUT that is exactly the reason im taking my time and getting it all spot on first.

    too many times people make threads regarding conversions that dont work or run badly/wrong, and then everyone thinks a converted car is shit or unreliable!

    my current 1.4 lump has ran spot on for 8k now and has only needed a clutch (touch wood) the last thing i want is a step down with regards to reliability!!
  30. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: May 2011 huddersfield Posts: 2635 ph3'd c2 gt
    #30
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    goodluck, best hope they dont read that statement lol..
    Hahah yep! Hopefully they'll have one
  31. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2010 Bath Posts: 2577 Saxo VTR
    #31
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mlawlan69 View Post
    im not trying to be cock saying this, so dont take it the wrong way BUT that is exactly the reason im taking my time and getting it all spot on first.

    too many times people make threads regarding conversions that dont work or run badly/wrong, and then everyone thinks a converted car is shit or unreliable!

    my current 1.4 lump has ran spot on for 8k now and has only needed a clutch (touch wood) the last thing i want is a step down with regards to reliability!!
    I wanted to take my time, but clutch went on old engine so not much choice. Plus the engine was rebuilt 1k ago, just bad luck!
  32. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #32
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shannon-ob View Post
    I wanted to take my time, but clutch went on old engine so not much choice. Plus the engine was rebuilt 1k ago, just bad luck!
    yeah sounds like it !!

    take it the pump wasnt changed when it was built up
  33. Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2011 Hertfordshire Posts: 250 2000 Saxo Woodland Green VTS, 2002 Mazda MX5
    #33
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by unreal106 View Post
    I am not picking faults with your comment please don't take it as that I am really interested to know how people can do this
    That's alright mate i'm just talking in general terms, a group of lads were working on a Zetec engine at uni and somehow managed to get the inlet valves 180degrees out god knows how there were only meant to advance the inlet opening 20degrees? fortunately we noticed before it went on the dyno
  34. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Sep 2010 leeds Posts: 4389 MCS R53 S/C 16v furiooo
    #34
    little bump to this, bought the engine stand mentioned further up the page, got that up today, really cannot complain for the price, arrived next day.and is solid as a rock, highly recommended!

    also purchased a halfords tool kit down from £200 to £100 so was very happy with that, has pretty much everything i think im going to need, also got myself a haynes manual, this isnt so good, it's daunting to read and constantly referring to other sections/pages making it a little hard to follow!

    couple of weeks time i am going to buy some parts.

    full gates belt kit.
    head gasket set.
    water pump.
    clutch kit

    is there anything else im missing? im wanting to speed this up a little bit now as my clutch, after 8 months, is starting to slip!! not happy.