MOT failed, report posted

11th December 2012, 16:10

Hi yet again for the 4th year running the saxo failed its MOT and yet again its on the emissions, even with a new cat and exhaust system. Here are the reports as it will make more sense to you guys:

He said the main issue is the emissions itself as the rear breaks can be adjusted. But with me having a k&N 57i filter installed the emissions reading he beleives it too high causing it to fail. Yet last year a pipercross cone filter was installed to it with no air feed were the K&N has an air feed to it and sits directly on top of the throttle body. Mine isn't like the mrk2 setup its the old filter in the box type. So he suggested to put the air filter back to standard including the box. but need your input on it. If i ned the original back on will need to get hold of one as i threw mine away years ago.

Thanks

11th December 2012, 16:16

I would probably start with a new lambda sensor - Not sure if those ones have 1 or 2 of them?

Wouldn't worry about the air filter, although its dragging hot air in, it shouldn't make any difference to the emissions really.

11th December 2012, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonmayall

I would probably start with a new lambda sensor - Not sure if those ones have 1 or 2 of them?

Wouldn't worry about the air filter, although its dragging hot air in, it shouldn't make any difference to the emissions really.

Thanks man but when it failed on emissions last year it was down to the lambda sensor which was replaced with a new one lol so cant be that. Exhaust hasn't been touched since last MOT unless their are gaps in the joints but he would have told me that.

11th December 2012, 16:32

Monoxide can usually be realted to the air filter if its lacked servicing. How old is the filter and is it clean? The fact you have got that and a lambda reading could be down to just one fault. Test the lambda also. Is the TB clogged to hell?

11th December 2012, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

Monoxide can usually be realted to the air filter if its lacked servicing. How old is the filter and is it clean? The fact you have got that and a lambda reading could be down to just one fault. Test the lambda also. Is the TB clogged to hell?

Thanks Tom sorry for the amateur of mechanics that i am how do i test the lambda and what do you mean when referring to the TB being clogged? I didnt clean the filter when i got it as it was barely used and looked real clean when i got it but for what its worth best putting it back to original with a box unit and put in a new filter

Thanks

11th December 2012, 17:51

Clean the filter. By TB i mean throttle body, use some cleaner to clean that also. The lambda testing will likely need to be done by a mechanic if you dont know anything about it.

11th December 2012, 18:46

Get him to test it without the filter to see if that helps.

11th December 2012, 19:01

was the car up to temperature?

my girlfriends furio failed emission, fitted new cat and still failed.

tester said leave it running for a while.

20 minutes later and it passed eventually after reving the car for a while on the test.

11th December 2012, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

Clean the filter. By TB i mean throttle body, use some cleaner to clean that also. The lambda testing will likely need to be done by a mechanic if you don't know anything about it.

OK will clean the throttle body I've got some cleaner for it, but its the small pipes that attached to the casing of the air filter box which i need to reconnect as this could be causing false readings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee_gsi

Get him to test it without the filter to see if that helps.

Could do but need it sorting asap as i don't have time off, that's the issues with working in retail you don't get time off to mess around and experiment with stuff lol even though id love to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick_VTR

was the car up to temperature?

my girlfriends furio failed emission, fitted new cat and still failed.

tester said leave it running for a while.

20 minutes later and it passed eventually after reving the car for a while on the test.

Think so mate ran the car for 15 mins this morning prior to test and drove it to the test centre were he started the test just as i left the garage.

11th December 2012, 19:44

Were was it done at mate?

11th December 2012, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

Were was it done at mate?

Auto Enterprises just over the road from were you use to work. Good mechanics don't give no bull they just tell you as it is.

12th December 2012, 05:02

did you give it the old Italian tune before testing it?

12th December 2012, 07:38

change the air filter, change the lambda sensor and thrash the f**k out of it on the way to the MOT. if it fails then, find a backstreet garage who will take a fiver to shove the probe up someone elses car...

12th December 2012, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarkey1269

did you give it the old Italian tune before testing it?

What you mean mate im interested to try this out

12th December 2012, 20:47

Italian tune up = Thrash the hell out of it lol

12th December 2012, 20:47

Get the cat really hot before it goes in for the test, so you need to give the car a good pasting before and dont let them sit it outside for an hour before they do it

12th December 2012, 20:50

as above...just give it a spirited run before hand

12th December 2012, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4tt274

change the air filter, change the lambda sensor and thrash the f**k out of it on the way to the MOT. if it fails then, find a backstreet garage who will take a fiver to shove the probe up someone elses car...

Thanks ill do all of the above except the last thing im not into the whole illegal Mot business not worth getting caught

13th December 2012, 14:47

I am guessing the cat was a non genuine one that you fitted and so was the lambda probe
lots of the cheap remanufactured cats from china have so little of the ctive metal inthem that it is not uncommon to get a fial after a year ,
its absolutley NOTHING to do with the type of air filter --hes just showing his lack of how things work .
a cheap cat may need to be stinking hot to work .

13th December 2012, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

I am guessing the cat was a non genuine one that you fitted and so was the lambda probe
lots of the cheap remanufactured cats from china have so little of the ctive metal inthem that it is not uncommon to get a fial after a year ,
its absolutley NOTHING to do with the type of air filter --hes just showing his lack of how things work .
a cheap cat may need to be stinking hot to work .

Good bit of advice their thanks. Yes it was a cheap cat from the net, however as you can see due to my lack of mechanical knowledge i made sure it was compatible for my vehicle and installed it. I am still putting the stock filter back on and new air filter inside. As for the lambda sensor it was replaced by the same garage exactly a year ago as the replacement lambda sensor passed the MOT when it failed on emissions last year. Problem is i only bought the cat a year ago so for this test can i do what you just suggested above get the car real hot to give it a better chance of passing? Just out of interest why would you have to get it really hot in order for it to function properly? The guy who is doing the MOT has been MOT cars for at least 30 year so i would assume he wouldn't just say it was the air filter for the sake of it. Mind you it wasn't an ideal filter as it was the K&N filter that attatches direct onto the throttle body and a ducting fed to it. He was referring to the small pipes that link off the original air filter box as due to the new filter design it couldn't connect to anything.

Thanks

15th December 2012, 22:47

This is exactly the setup im using now, i really cant see how the air filter is causing it to fail? the disconnected pipes is the one coming from the rocker cover but has been replaced with a pipe direct to the filter and have fed the provided ducting from the original front vent mount to sit right next to the filter here is pic on a 106 that has done the same setup. Problem is dont want to take it back for a retest to find he is blaming the air filter as i still cant get some of the parts needed to put the original filter back on and its due up soon.

http://www.ironpumacustoms.co.uk/mech/pug/piks/knn.jpg

15th December 2012, 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgiee

Thanks man but when it failed on emissions last year it was down to the lambda sensor which was replaced with a new one lol so cant be that. Exhaust hasn't been touched since last MOT unless their are gaps in the joints but he would have told me that.

ebay cheap tat or a proper decent lambda?

16th December 2012, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prickle

ebay cheap tat or a proper decent lambda?

I assume a decent one as i provided one from ebay and he said its no good so he ordered mw one for my car and fitted it that day, it then passed its emissions, but then i i only had my piper cross filter on.

16th December 2012, 19:15

Good old service helps plugs,oil and filter helped me pass mine also remove ur lamda sensor give it a clean

16th December 2012, 19:16

Also use a chemical flush that u add to ur oil does it a lot of good

17th December 2012, 10:35

when you consider scrap men will give me up to £40 for a genuine saxo cat and fuck all for a replacemnt one --that should tel you how much of theexotic metals ar in a cheap cat --and that is why they do not work for long and need to be very hot to work at all
__________________

20th December 2012, 23:04

Ok well thanks for all your comments has helped a lot, im putting my car back through its MOT. I have had a hell of a week just when i thought i had it sorted by ordering the spare parts from Citreon and paid for them they today said they cant get them as their obsolete, but they didn't have the decency to tell me! So have to take the cr back to the garage with the same filter on so is their anything i can tell him to do to it pass its MOT? yesterday i fueled up and put RED X in to help with emissions, and going to rag the car tomorrow before it arrives at the test center so its stinking hot lol.

Thanks

21st December 2012, 08:30

just drive it at around 3500rpm+ --just use a lower gear + light throttle that will heat everything up

21st December 2012, 10:43

Thanks mate just managed to read your message before i left for the test center lol so done exactly as you said. On arrival the guy who owns the garage, know him real well so he never tells me bull tells me how it is. After telling him i couldn't get the parts and why, he said it wasn't the filter itself that was the problem he said its the vacuum pips that connects to the original air filter system that causing the issue. With the 57i only having one additional pipe going from the filter to the rocker cover box he said their is either too much or not enough air supplying making the emissions reading go in different directions, He said its the vacuums that controls how much air is needed for different parts in the engine. So he is going to try his best to see what he can do to pass it but not promising anything as he would refuse to do dodgy MOT's, also he is aware its a cheap CAT but when he knows a cheap CAT is installed he does rag the car in the garage to heat up the exhaust. Will inform you when i get a call back from him weather its staying in the garage or weather it passes.

21st December 2012, 11:10

christ never seen so much aggro over emissions. Can you not just take it to a "friendly" mot centre? They do still exist

22nd December 2012, 00:00

Well its passed. However just, the emissions reading were just within what is specified that was after a lot of messing around trying to get a good emissions reading so he has strongly urged me to get rid of the filter and go back to standard and to also get a proper Cat exhaust which is all plans in the new year. Thanks for all your input on this one

22nd December 2012, 15:45

Atleast you have a year to sort it lol

22nd December 2012, 19:07

lambda wont sort the emissions out,, CO is miles out and is cause by the cat dude,, nout to do with the lambda sensor

cheap and nasty cats are designed to get through that 1 mot

22nd December 2012, 19:17

you could try removing the air cleaner just for the test, and advancing the intake cam a fraction, and retarding the exhaust cam later,this would give the combustion more time to burn? Hi CO is rich mixture, so could be blocked air cleaner or Lambda sensor, I thought the cat cleaned the hydrocarbons?

...I get my MoT's over the phone so I dunno

^ that's a joke btw

22nd December 2012, 19:27

...or more seriously, the 1.10 Lambda value indicates a 'lean' mixture, but the high CO indicates a RICH mixture. If you had a leak from the manifold to the lambda sensor, it would sense extra O2, richen the mixture, even though the CO was high indicating the actual burn was rich.

It could of course not be any of that!

22nd December 2012, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthor1

you could try removing the air cleaner just for the test, and advancing the intake cam a fraction, and retarding the exhaust cam later,this would give the combustion more time to burn? Hi CO is rich mixture, so could be blocked air cleaner or Lambda sensor, I thought the cat cleaned the hydrocarbons?

...I get my MoT's over the phone so I dunno

^ that's a joke btw

single cam

22nd December 2012, 21:15

That'll teach me to not read the post! Well ignore that then