vtr or vts turbo?

22nd February 2013, 18:26

Im thinking ahead here but Im planning to buy a second engine to turbo before putting in the car. That way Im not left car-less while the works done.

My question is should i go for a vtr turbo or vts?

I only ask cuz i love the low down torque of the 8v but not sure if it'll respond well to boost.

22nd February 2013, 18:33

I'm in the middle of doing my turbo vtr but most on here will tell you to get the vts as it has more power to start with.
I chose the vtr because it was cheaper for the engine and less work to convert it and more room in the Bay and if dome well can produce the same ish power

22nd February 2013, 18:43

lol low down torque of the vtr?? i felt my old vts to be better in performance in every way compared to the vtr

vts turbos fetch alot more bhp than vtr turbos generally

only advantage to a vtr turbo is tax, insurance and mpg imo

22nd February 2013, 18:43

Depends on what sort of power you want to make. And how big your wallet is lol.

22nd February 2013, 18:55

I won't be doing it in one expensive hit (hense second engine) so if it costs more, it'll just take longer to do.

22nd February 2013, 18:55

Well I'm aiming for 150 and all I need is oil feed / return and piping then I'm done ish and only spent 120 so far

and the turbo lpl but I'm getting it for free

22nd February 2013, 18:58

Maybe it would be worth swapping to the 16v. I am finding the 8v runs out of steam when motorway driving when compared to my mates gti

22nd February 2013, 18:59

I wanna be running over 200 once its done. An easy target i think.

22nd February 2013, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJVTR

Well I'm aiming for 150 and all I need is oil feed / return and piping then I'm done ish and only spent 120 so far

and the turbo lpl but I'm getting it for free

Not even worth bothering for 150bhp. Just cam a vts and get more.

22nd February 2013, 19:17

I mean atw not the fly so be around 170? And if I want more u can forge in future

22nd February 2013, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod1

I wanna be running over 200 once its done. An easy target i think.

not quite an easy target for a vtr

22nd February 2013, 19:37

Iirc Jones run around 190bhp on a budget turbo S so as LSO said not such a easy target on a R without spending a fair few quid.

Check blackie-2k5s thread out

22nd February 2013, 19:47

to get 160 out of a vtr is an easy game

22nd February 2013, 20:06

vtr will do 160 on about 6/7psi

jones was running low boost on his S, about the same as above it think?, and im pretty sure his mapper wasnt keen on a none forged vts as i dont think he'd done one before.. so id imagine he'll of been pretty laid back with the ignition timing

im sure he'll post up when he sees this

22nd February 2013, 20:19

VTS has more torque everywhere than a VTR so if your choosing for that reason alone forget the VTR.

200hp will be fine on non-forged VTS engine as long as its mapped well (and I do mean well).

Could be done pretty cheap. Trouble is, once you have 200, you'll want more. Everyone does

22nd February 2013, 20:27

Ive had a vtr turbo for 10 years ( last one running 262bhp)

Having just swapped to a vts turbo, im still running it in so havent had it on boost but it already feels much stronger than the vtr did

22nd February 2013, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

VTS has more torque everywhere than a VTR so if your choosing for that reason alone forget the VTR.

200hp will be fine on non-forged VTS engine as long as its mapped well (and I do mean well).

Could be done pretty cheap. Trouble is, once you have 200, you'll want more. Everyone does

this.... is a problem lol

22nd February 2013, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

vtr will do 160 on about 6/7psi

jones was running low boost on his S, about the same as above it think?, and im pretty sure his mapper wasnt keen on a none forged vts as i dont think he'd done one before.. so id imagine he'll of been pretty laid back with the ignition timing

im sure he'll post up when he sees this

Yep I made 190bhp on a vts with a kkk k03 @ 12psi, and that was using cams that were too big, a very restrictive exhaust and old fuel I probably shouldn't of used thinking about it. If I sorted out the above issues I'd of seen over 200bhp I'd say. Plus the mapper retarded the timing a bit..... still didn't stop him fucking up my car though #%@*

Back to the point lol both engines are as strong as each other internally, so let's say your aiming for 200bhp, if you used a vtr engine you could just make up the extra power using a bigger turbo or turning the boost up and the build wouldn't cost any more

However going for big power I'd use a vts lump

22nd February 2013, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

this.... is a problem lol

+2, had to get out of it before it financially got out of control

22nd February 2013, 22:20

Lol maybe i shouldve stuck to a c20let corsa...

But it seems that 16v is the way to go.

22nd February 2013, 22:28

c20 let corsa has the same issues.. once you get to 300bhp you really need to be looking at forged lol

corsas dont handle

22nd February 2013, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

Ive had a vtr turbo for 10 years ( last one running 262bhp)

Having just swapped to a vts turbo, im still running it in so havent had it on boost but it already feels much stronger than the vtr did

Im glad you stopped pissing into the wind.

16V POWWWAAA

22nd February 2013, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

Im glad you stopped pissing into the wind.

16V POWWWAAA

we just need you to get a turbo and me to get another 8 valves now ryan

22nd February 2013, 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

we just need you to get a turbo and me to get another 8 valves now ryan

Ill go boost but still keep my NA engine.

Although if my engine was to ever want rebuilding id change the pistons and build a high revving SC set up.

22nd February 2013, 22:36

you know it makes sense

22nd February 2013, 22:38

Its much more complicated, and seeing as pretty much every TU where someone has tried to run ITBs and boost has been a mega fuck up id have to go to a single butterfly.

NA is still king for the ultimate driving experience though for me.

22nd February 2013, 22:54

Ry the only reason everyone has fucked up is mainly down to inlet design and not sorting out an adequate throttle quadrant solution, realistically even for yours you would just need a decent plenum designed for it and a rotrex happy days

22nd February 2013, 22:55

i read that a while back,

but mtech seem to be able to map bodies and boost well, and have done on a few cars, ive read alot about it now, spoke toa good few mappers about it as well, only cost is the limit now

no point telling you how much na has come in last few years for tu.. seems plenty can do it for boost too, just need to find the right mapper

22nd February 2013, 23:36

The size of the butterflys can also be an issue when it comes to driveability and throttle opening.

I have the actual pugsport bodies which off the top of my head do run fairly large butterflys.

Anyway I digress, its not something I plan on doing anyway. I just want to enjoy the car this year again.

23rd February 2013, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

c20 let corsa has the same issues.. once you get to 300bhp you really need to be looking at forged lol

corsas dont handle

Its true. my corsa handled like a dog compared to my saxo.

And ill be forging the lump anyway...figured i may as well before i fit it.

23rd February 2013, 18:45

500hp is not unobtainable from the 16v lump - good luck getting that from the 8v

23rd February 2013, 18:53

Nothing wrong with 8v..on other cars

my Leon is an 8v tdi...192bhp and 308ft/lb torque at stage 1..but i'm guessing it's a much different game with turbos on petrol cars?

I'd listen to Ross and Blackie on this

23rd February 2013, 20:16

be fair though ryan.. its not hard to get 300bhp from an 8v

and in the real world, unless it a drag car youre not gonna able to use much more then 300bhp on the road in a car as light

with the right specs and some clever thinking.. dont see why you couldnt get north of 400 in an 8v an be useable

23rd February 2013, 20:20

if this is to be believed its 300+ in a 1.4

it a drag car.. so id imagine it a big turbo, but nothing is impossible

23rd February 2013, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

c20 let corsa has the same issues.. once you get to 300bhp you really need to be looking at forged lol

corsas dont handle

I know some one making 500bhp + on a standard c20let bottom end bar cheap Chinese steel rods,

And it's easy to sort the handling on a corsa tbh, I know plenty of decent handling corsa's.
my old corsa used to go round a Track very well.

23rd February 2013, 20:29

if id had a decent exhaust mani on my last 8v that would of made 350+

23rd February 2013, 20:31

just a comparitive post tbh mate, i know you can make corsas handle well.. but they arent known for being a good handling car

as for the 500bhp clet.. its got forged rods

im just going off what the general bandwagon is, once you get to 300 you need to be looking at forged parts

23rd February 2013, 20:34

Power is related to budget really. You can pull 1000hp per litre if you have the money for the relevent design. Benetton tested a 1.5 engine at 2020hp on a track in the 90's.

23rd February 2013, 20:36

cant argue with that

was talking to that dude from the vid i posted, its a stadard engine lol

running 2.8 bar of boost

23rd February 2013, 22:41

Usable on the road the limit is around 375hp max tbh, depending how its delivered. At 350hp my 106 was a far nicer car to drive than the 400+, but that was down to the delivery. At 400 (that's 375atw on my setup) it was so brutal it was unreal - but like I say, mostly down to the shitty delivery with the laggy turbo. Iirc I made 200 hp in 1000 rpm.

In the words of a fat black woman from the Internet - ain't no one got time fo that!

24th February 2013, 15:40

(Cough) supercharger instead