My Cam Pulley in Bits! Pics!

1. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

   #1 28th May 2013, 13:41

   Anyone seen this before on these 16v's?
   
   Side of the M40 at 6AM:
   
   
   
   
   Belt cover off:
   
   
   
   Argh!
   
   Needless to say I'm after some 708's and a 16v j4 head.
   
   Thanks for looking.
2. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

   #2 28th May 2013, 13:49

   Whoops move to Engine section. Ta!
3. Pricklep Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5

   #3 28th May 2013, 13:54

   Last i checked mine was intact
   
   Bad times
4. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #4 28th May 2013, 14:22

   What were the retaining bolts torqued up to?
   Bad times also there, you get my sympathy
5. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

   #5 28th May 2013, 15:02

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Prickle Last i checked mine was intact Bad times

   *are (theres two)
   
   

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Gandi699 What were the retaining bolts torqued up to? Bad times also there, you get my sympathy

   Whatever they should be when I checked 30k ago
   
   I've yet to look at the bottom end.
   
   The Pulley let go at 5300rpm~
6. Pricklep Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 31279 Citroen Saxo VTS, S60 D5

   #6 28th May 2013, 15:04

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by bytor *are (theres two)

   *I know....
7. richy_t_123 Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2009 newcastle Posts: 980 2002 silver vts

   #7 28th May 2013, 15:29

   May have a good jp4 head
8. DanTvts Established Member Joined: Mar 2011 Torbay Posts: 1285 Mauritius Vts, 206 Gti 180

   #8 28th May 2013, 19:06

   Jesus! Not seen that before, bad times i feel for you!
9. luthor1 Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802

   #9 28th May 2013, 19:24

   That's what happens when you set the belt tension with the engine/belt cold and when it warms up the head swells tightening the belt
10. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #10 28th May 2013, 19:34

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by luthor1 That's what happens when you set the belt tension with the engine/belt cold and when it warms up the head swells tightening the belt

    How do they counter that at the factory or when a fresh builds been done? Or just run it until warm and retension?
11. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

    #11 28th May 2013, 19:46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by luthor1 That's what happens when you set the belt tension with the engine/belt cold and when it warms up the head swells tightening the belt

    no its not.

    3 users thanked this post: user_12874, Aly, user_43898
12. user_43898 Established Member Joined: May 2010 leicester Posts: 1446 Clio 182 Inferno

    #12 28th May 2013, 19:48

    I always set a belt on a cold engine slighty slacker than i normally would if the engine was hot to allow for expansion.
    
    However i doubt its anything directly to do with the belt tension. If a belt gets set too tight to cause any issues at all then the first thing to go is normally the waterpump bearings in my experience
13. user_43898 Established Member Joined: May 2010 leicester Posts: 1446 Clio 182 Inferno

    #13 28th May 2013, 19:55

    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=451400....edit...its from a GTI so not sure if its anygood

    1 user thanked this post: user_12874
14. user_60976 Regular Poster Joined: Aug 2012 Street, Somerset Posts: 460 2002 VTS

    #14 28th May 2013, 19:57

    shit unlucky mate :/
15. user_32315 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Mar 2009 Uppingham, Rutland Posts: 9569 mk1 JP4'd VTR, '16 Fabia Monte Carlo

    #15 28th May 2013, 21:14

    tom5190 is selling his 16v engine with 743's, inclosed induction kit, mapped ecu and loom etcc

    1 user thanked this post: user_12874
16. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #16 29th May 2013, 07:13

    Cheers lads,
    
    This engine has 147k on it, either the bottom end or the head is causing it to burn a little oil. Only ever done cambelts and head gasket on it. Its had a hard life but it went well and recently came back from the ring.
    
    I've found a j4 head for £40, just need to look for some 708 or 743 cams for the right price.
    
    Not had the time to take the head off yet, if the bottom end is a dead then i'll start a fresh, but if i can get away with a quick head swap and some cams at the same time i'll do it.
    
    That belt's been on for 40k (year and a half) I doubt its the tension.
17. monka Established Member Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1368

    #17 29th May 2013, 07:19

    I have a j4 block and head for 20, granted they are stripped, need gone tonight though
18. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #18 29th May 2013, 07:51

    Monka,
    
    One I've bought is complete barring Cams.
    
    Cheers.
19. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #19 29th May 2013, 08:30

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gandi699 How do they counter that at the factory or when a fresh builds been done? Or just run it until warm and retension?

    they use a belt tension tool and set it to correct tension ,wich allows for expansion .its also why the later wengines tu5jp4 have sprung loaded tensioner ,but that is no good for very high revving + lumpy cams if you modify
20. weve33 Infrequent Poster Joined: May 2013 Posts: 155

    #20 29th May 2013, 13:34

    bad times...
21. user_39821 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2009 Uckfield, East Sussex Posts: 3362 Citroen saxo 1.4 furio

    #21 29th May 2013, 14:03

    Very strange failure state. Looks like fatigue. It's failed on the inside bolt mounting, as well as the external edge of the spokes. Very odd
22. luthor1 Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 1802

    #22 29th May 2013, 14:45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by welshpug no its not.

    Yes it is angry-welshman!
23. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

    #23 29th May 2013, 15:57

    lol! I'm far from angry

    1 user thanked this post: luthor1
24. Sophia_Bush Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi

    #24 29th May 2013, 16:00

    you know a cheap fix would be get a complete jp4 engine change a few things over and you'd have a nice low mileage motor with potential
25. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #25 29th May 2013, 16:31

    Good shout, but the likelihood is I'll never go TB's, if I did I'd rebuild the bottom end in any case, therefore I see no reason to go jp4. (unless I'm mistaken here, if I'm just adding wilder cams I'm better off with a j4 head) Plus i know this loom and the rest of the engine is decent.
    
    The car needs to be back on the road for August due to another ring trip, so the way I see it is if the bottom end isn't smashed up, I'll basically do a head gasket change and put some 708's in at the same time. (Well it would be rude not to!)
26. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #26 29th June 2013, 22:02

    Well bottom end looks like its done 147k - well thats because it has.
    
    You can see some light marks on the pistons where its de-carb'd the indentations. I'm going build a new engine for this car so, i'm going to run this bottom end for 6-8 months.
    
    Got a new head for £40 cams and all in good nick. Time to put that on and get her back to the ring in August.
    
    
    
    
    
    
27. Cam Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2010 Kent Posts: 8439 Gen 7 Celica 190.

    #27 29th June 2013, 22:08

    Got any better quality pictures mate?
28. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #28 29th June 2013, 22:37

    Can do, of anything specific?
29. Cam Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Nov 2010 Kent Posts: 8439 Gen 7 Celica 190.

    #29 29th June 2013, 23:01

    Just of piston damage
    
    No real reason just want to see what it done at high revs
30. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #30 1st July 2013, 10:15

    Will do mate when I next work on the car.
31. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #31 8th January 2014, 10:42

    Forgot to update this.
    
    Some pictures of piston damage:
    
    
    
    
    
    Obviously I wasn't sure if there was any damage to the crank and bearings, I've had the car a long time so I decided to chuck some parts at it and see how it ran when done.
    
    Parts list:
    
    2 x 5/40w
    oil filter
    cambelt
    headgasket
    headbolts
    alternator tensioner (bearing was going)
    sealent
    hammerite
    electrical tape
    coolant
    powersteering fluid
    
    
    I'm sure there was other stuff.
    
    I cleaned out all the crap (burnt oil mainly) from the bottom end so it was at least fresh and clean. On 147k miles I could still see the manufacturing scores on the bores of the cylinders. Regular oil changes with good oil!!
    
    Old head:
    
    
    
    As you can see from the valves they are shot! And from the pistons the valve seals are gone, which would explain the puffs of blue smoke!
    
    
    New head:
    
    
    
    
    My rack was scary, so while the head was off and the rack was accessible I swapped that out as well:
    
    
    
    
    
    The sensors for the throttle body and inlet manifold were coked in crap, so they got a clean out as well as the throttle body itself, I'll prob revert back to a standard panel filter after seeing all that shit. Also did what I could with the injectors.
    
    Nearly done:
    
    
    
    
    
    
    As you can see not much time went into it in regards to looks, get it running and sort out the dirt later!
    
    
    
    
    Back on the road:
    
    
    
    Outcome? - The engine feels better than it has for a while, a general clear out of crap and a head that's in good nick has helped. I could have got a second hand engine for £200, but it wouldn't run like this does now, plus it wouldn't be my engine any more!
    
    I had a general tidy up in regards to sensors, wiring and anything else a miss that was accessible with half the engine out.
    
    Yeah I'm aware the bottom end could have been damaged and be a ticking time bomb, and if it was really important you'd get the bottom end checked, rebuilt or binned, but its a second car and it doesn't really matter if it goes bang.
    
    Thanks for reading.
    
    Scott
32. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #32 8th January 2014, 11:14

    Bottom end shouldnt be a problem, the damage to the pistons doesnt seem all that bad considering?
33. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #33 8th January 2014, 11:29

    Yeah it was pretty light, a few bits needing filling and sanding down as the metal was sticking up.
34. user_29491 Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2008 Lancs Posts: 4124 JP4S'd R.

    #34 8th January 2014, 18:51

    That right leg and strut looks bad, Starting to rust through! no arch liners?
35. user_12874 Frequent Poster Joined: Dec 2006 London, England Posts: 734 Saxo VTS, Audi A6 Avant Quattro.

    #35 9th January 2014, 09:41

    Strut is fine, but under the ecu is fucked as you can see haha. I'll get around to it, the other side isn't far off that either. The boot could do with a brush down and paint. As always its money and getting around to it. Rest of it is rust free mind.
    
    This is a second car / backup car :-)