FIXED - Have i done something wrong with the timing?

  1. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #1
    FIXED !!!!!

    Bought a VTS and changed the cambelt on that engine and measured the tensioner and it measures 70mm, so i went and measured my tensioners on this dodgey engine.

    Original tensioner and replacement both measure 60mm, so i did a browse around on the internet and there's 2 sizes, a 59mm and a 70mm.

    Used the tensioner off the new engine and it fits and tensions fine.


    I have timed it all up alright but the tensioner seems to be all the way to the max, i haven't had to use the special tool to push the tensioner out, i just used my hands.

    It feels like it need to be tighter but the tenioner is maxed out, is something in the wrong place or have is something else wrong?



  2. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #2
    Are you sure you haven't over tightened it? that's easy to do!

    Also, the bolts on your cams aren't right, they shouldn't be to the far left. (you can see where they used to be) that's roughly where the bolts should be when you tension it.
  3. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
    #3
    Youve forgotten the inner belt cover for a start!

    100% its a j4 kit?
  4. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #4
    yeah its the same length, width and teeth.

    Those bolts on the pulleys are loose for now.
  5. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #5
    belt is on wrong tooth for cams to be at end of adjustment ,
    wrong tensioner fitted ?--is that from a jp4 engine j4 tensioner is all steel with an eccentric
    the head you have fitted is a j4 and is it skimmed to death so belt is now too long?
    the other thing could be wrong water pump vtr one has different size pulley
  6. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #6
    these are all the parts from before, i have only changed the belt and water pump.

    i had the head skimmed but unsure on previous life.

    head is a J4
  7. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
    #7
    check the water pump against the old one.
  8. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #8
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by welshpug View Post
    check the water pump against the old one.
    Water pump matches fine.
  9. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #9
    i have used the old belt and old water pump and it is still the same. Must be the head has been over skimmed?
  10. Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 2012 canterbury Posts: 586 3/4 vtr turbo
    #10
    Located the tensioner properly?
  11. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #11
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vtr91 View Post
    Located the tensioner properly?
    think so, anyone got a pic of where it should go?
  12. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #12
    time it up as normal, rotate the engine by hand, twice.

    feel the tension on the belt again.

    Sometimes you need to rotate it to get the tension even all the way round.
  13. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #13
    just timed it up as normal, tensioner on max

    turned it over twice and it feels a tad loose all around.

    Is there a bigger tensioner i can get?
  14. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
    #14
    if it was fine before and you've only changed the belt and pump then it must be the belt or pump.
  15. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #15
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by welshpug View Post
    if it was fine before and you've only changed the belt and pump then it must be the belt or pump.
    I'm not too sure what it was like before.

    I tried with the old pump and belt but its exactly the same.
  16. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #16
    the tensioner and the idler are exactly the correct mm so these aren't at fault either.

    guess its a replacement head, anyone got a spare head that can measure the distance from the v groove for the spark plugs, to the surface of the head, then i can measure mine and see if the head is at fault.
  17. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #17


  18. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #18
    If the head had been skimmed that much, valves would be hitting the pistons.

    No way more than 1.5mm has been skimmed off that in order to make the belt loose.

    Here is a video of the sort of tension you're looking for.

    http://youtu.be/HyoZcFTLCcw

    but that same movement between the exhaust cam and idler. Obviously because I demonstrated using my 1.5D
  19. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MartinObviously View Post
    If the head had been skimmed that much, valves would be hitting the pistons.

    No way more than 1.5mm has been skimmed off that in order to make the belt loose.

    Here is a video of the sort of tension you're looking for.

    http://youtu.be/HyoZcFTLCcw

    but that same movement between the exhaust cam and idler. Obviously because I demonstrated using my 1.5D
    Here's a video of the issue I'm having with the tension on the belt:

  20. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #20
    hmmmmmm I see, I wouldn't expect you be able to move the tensioner by hand

    I hope someone knows what's going on here, my mind == blown at the minute lol

    Pity you can't remove a few teeth - like a chain and links
  21. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #21
    right, got another head from ebay that has not been skimmed, arrived today and its the exact same problem as above.

    Whats going on?
  22. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #22
    the only last thing it could be is one of the pulleys are wrong, anyone got a tooth count on the cam pulleys and the crank pulley?
  23. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #23
    your tensioner is probably wrong size --never seen one with plastic pulley ring --std one is all metal .other thing-- is water pump for vtr? has different number of tetth than a vts one ,so is it a vtr pump.
    you have got correct belt --how many teeth?
    never been any different cam pullies --so its not them
    std belt =134 teeth
  24. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #24
    i have checked the diameter of the tensioner and its the same as them listing for the vts.
  25. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2009 Uckfield, East Sussex Posts: 3362 Citroen saxo 1.4 furio
    #25
    Yes, but the acentric system may work on different dimensions.
  26. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #26
    maybe onto something there, i have bought a replacement tensioner and will give that a go when it arrives.
  27. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by axsaxoman View Post
    your tensioner is probably wrong size --never seen one with plastic pulley ring --std one is all metal .other thing-- is water pump for vtr? has different number of tetth than a vts one ,so is it a vtr pump.
    you have got correct belt --how many teeth?
    never been any different cam pullies --so its not them
    std belt =134 teeth
    Mine is plastic

    it's also plastic on my 1.5D (was metal as well)

    same size pulleys.
  28. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #28
    so not a genuine tensioner then
    i would never use a plastic edged type by choice --
    only cam belt tensioners I have ever seen fall apart are these type of units --ford had to drop their belt change intervals by 50 % on the zetec because of smaller dia bearings heating up and the plastic rings coming loose + breaking up .Its is cheaper to make a smaller dia brg with plastic ring , which also means the surface speed of the actual bearing is faster --more heat
    the only saving grace is at least its not on the power side of the belt run ,so less load to withstand .
  29. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #29
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by axsaxoman View Post
    so not a genuine tensioner then
    i would never use a plastic edged type by choice --
    only cam belt tensioners I have ever seen fall apart are these type of units --ford had to drop their belt change intervals by 50 % on the zetec because of smaller dia bearings heating up and the plastic rings coming loose + breaking up .Its is cheaper to make a smaller dia brg with plastic ring , which also means the surface speed of the actual bearing is faster --more heat
    the only saving grace is at least its not on the power side of the belt run ,so less load to withstand .
    Well, I bought both my timing belt kits from a Peugeot Dealer.

    They gave me plastic idler pulley, and metal tensioner, new bolts and the belt of course.

    I queried it, and all I got told was "that's the way they come now". I wouldn't have a plastic one out of choice either. I was tempted to fit my old metal one back on, it felt quite smooth after 95,000 miles.
  30. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #30
    never seen one of those tensioners that has not been smooth--big diameter means it turns slow in comparison to alot of other engines which use skimpy small dia units .
    its one engine the makers got right a big wide belt and decent size rollers ,so its not one that suffers from belt breakages -- and most water pumps are knackered by the belt being over tightened --
  31. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #31
    Iirc the PSA/BMW Prince engines suffered from tensioner/idler failure as they used plastic items. I only remember because it happened to my mates Mini engine, he looked into it and said it was common, the part in question had undergone a load of revisions.

    I bought a cambelt kit for the 106 GTi from the dealer recently (well, March I think) and the idler and tensioner were both metal. Could be revised by now but it would seem a weird time to revise a part.
  32. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #32
    that was a different problem
    the prince or EP series of engines use chain drive and the tensioner are plastic guides not rollers .
    yes there have been at least 21 upgrades to my knowledge ,but the real problem was not the chain coming loose ,but the cam wheels moving on the end of the cams as there is no locking mech ,just the tightness of the bolt holding wheels in correct postion .
    so when they move the engine start idling badly and then the cam chain rattles wearng out the guides .
    so if you hear a bmw mini or pug 207 turbo engine idling poorly it wil be the valve timing has moved slightly .
    that is one of the mods i would making if I ever start tuning these engines new cams +sprocket arrangment so they can,t move .
    vauxhall corsa 3 cylinder+ vectra v6 has same problem --if you hear one idling not totally smooth it will be cam timing not correct due to cam +sprocket movement ,putting cam timing out.
    to make it worse the cam phase sensor is on same wheel so it puts the squential injection timing out as well
  33. Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI
    #33
    Have you swung both inlet and exhaust cam ? If so why?

    Also bottom pulley needs to have the white mark at the base not the top
  34. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #34
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by unreal106 View Post
    Have you swung both inlet and exhaust cam ? If so why?

    Also bottom pulley needs to have the white mark at the base not the top
    well spotted that man -- if the white mark is over the groove in the crank pulley then it should be down --as it is you must have cylinders 2=3 AT TOP ,unless the crank key is not fitted?
  35. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #35
    for the pics, i just quickly put the belt on without correctly timing it, just so i could show the tension issue. Also what's ment by swung the cams?
  36. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #36
    exact same problem with a replacement tensioner, metal.
  37. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #37
    if tensioner is correct size and belt has correct no. of teeth + youhave a head gasket on engine then it must be the water pump is wrong one
  38. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #38
    ordered a different water pump for the saxo VTS and i have the same problem still.

    belt is correct, head gasket is on.
  39. Established Member Joined: Dec 2009 near manchester Posts: 1190 vtr'd FURIO....
    #39
    On all the vts engines I've changed the cam belt on I've had to use a 10mm square to adjust the tensioner but yours seems to be circular ?
  40. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #40
    it was circular but i bought a new VTS tensioner and it has a square but its still the same, loose.
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  41. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #41
    howmany teeth on water pump
  42. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #42
    i have 19 teeth on both pumps.
  43. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #43
    In that case I know the other type of pump has 20 teeth --that would solve your problem .
    --you sure the cam belt has correct no. of teeth
    give me tooth count on your crank pulley ,and cam wheels ,and check belt again for no. of teeth
  44. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #44
    Cam pulley 38
    Crank pulley 19
    Belt 134

    Whats a part number of a 20t pump, why are both my pumps 19t when they say for vts?
  45. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #45
    I have a spare genuine Peugeot 106 GTi pump sitting here, counted the teeth (a few times in case Id messed up) and it has 19 teeth.
  46. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gabbastard View Post
    I have a spare genuine Peugeot 106 GTi pump sitting here, counted the teeth (a few times in case Id messed up) and it has 19 teeth.
    +1 on that, mine is 19 as well.
  47. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #47
    im sick of this engine now
  48. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #48
    Very strange as it seems like you are using all the correct parts (assuming you did change the tensioner) so Im completely stumped as to why that could be giving you a loose belt.
  49. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #49
    Just to compare, this is the tensioner I got from Peugeot next to your part



    Does seem a bit different, especially with the wider -possibly offset- belt run face.
  50. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #50
    that looks a lot like the new tensioner i have got now.
  51. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
    #51
    erm, why is there a round hole next to that bolt?
  52. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #52
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by welshpug View Post
    erm, why is there a round hole next to that bolt?
    Im glad you noticed.
  53. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #53
    it turns into a square inside the hole.
  54. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
    #54
    take the bolt out, get us a picture.

    if the hole under the bolt is square, swap the bolt to the other hole...
  55. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #55
    Just looked at the tensioners and they cant go on any other way, below pics are just taken of the new belt, new wate pump, new tensioner and old tensioner in comparisson.

    All the parts are correct, and i have tried a 2nd unskimmed head, so it can only be an issue with the block, but whats the issue with it?











  56. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
    #56
    got a picture of the block without the bits on it?
  57. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #57
    just got these:



  58. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boylin View Post
    Cam pulley 38
    Crank pulley 19
    Belt 134

    Whats a part number of a 20t pump, why are both my pumps 19t when they say for vts?
    20t pump is for 8v engine but fits the same --and that would make your belt tighter --I have run out of ideas other than that
  59. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #59
    how much bigger is the 8v pump, would that be for a vtr?
    just wanted to know why this is happening though.
  60. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #60
    Did you get to the bottom of this?
  61. L-plater Joined: Jul 2013 kent Posts: 36 citroen saxo 1.1 desire soon the be 16v
    #61
    is it possible for the water pump to be the wrong way round? the reason i ask is corsa sports they are accentric but can be fitted anyway round causing the belt to be slack.....
  62. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dazbot8 View Post
    is it possible for the water pump to be the wrong way round? the reason i ask is corsa sports they are accentric but can be fitted anyway round causing the belt to be slack.....
    Nope, not possible due to design

    Fair point to make though.
    1 user thanked this post:
  63. Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI
    #63
    The cam pulleys are adjustable hence you can swing the cams the 3 bolts on each should be in the centre of the 3slots this will allow you to lock a pin in the head at the right points around 5 and 7 o'clock looking at the end of the pulley
    Yours are out hence making the belt run tight/loose as the pulley teeth are out of line
  64. Newbie Joined: Mar 2012 Posts: 3
    #64
    Also, might be a completely silly question, are you pulling the tensioner the right way? I remember doing mine and both ways pull on the belt, one way was slack and the other would tighten it up nicely, just a thought have you tried both ways?
  65. Established Member Joined: Jan 2012 south essex!! Posts: 2442 posi blue vtrs race car
    #65
    its where the bolts are loose... if you were to set the pulleys correctly tighten the 3 bolts on each pulley then tension it, it would be perfectly fine
  66. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #66
    Just been back out and had a look and done as said, put the pulleys in the middle and tightened them up and tried the belt again and still the same problem:






  67. Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI
    #67
    How loose is it now ?
  68. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #68
    Do you have the top cam carriers on?! If not then you can't put cambelt on as tension will be all over the place.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
  69. Established Member Joined: Apr 2008 Dudley Posts: 1634 106 GTI
    #69
    Good spot that man
  70. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #70
    oh aye yeah he doesn't didn't notice that before either
  71. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #71
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by raunchz View Post
    Do you have the top cam carriers on?! If not then you can't put cambelt on as tension will be all over the place.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
    You know something, I was just thinking that. but I didn't post.

    "nah, nobody is that silly" is what I said to myself

    OP, show us a picture of the engine, birds eye view.
  72. Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 449
    #72
    Hey are on in the first few pictures.... Hmmmm
  73. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #73
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scottie_436 View Post
    Hey are on in the first few pictures.... Hmmmm
    wait, I see now
  74. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Jan 2007 Shropshire Posts: 9994 Moonstone Blue 106 GTi
    #74
    http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...6&postcount=55
  75. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge
    #75
    Cams need to be clamped down all the way along!

    that would totally explain everything.
  76. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.
    #76
    you are meant to leave the pulleys slack until AFTER you tension the belt, but yeah, having the cam ladders bolted down helps.
  77. Saxperience Addict Joined: Jul 2005 Solihull / Bournemouth Posts: 14233 2015 Lapiz Blue Golf R
    #77
    Raunchz to the rescue

    Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
    1 user thanked this post:
  78. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #78
    i did have the top cam carriers on when i first timed it, until i got the new head, then i left them off, cams are solid in the grooves, no enough tension on the belt side to pull them up.
  79. Newbie Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 11
    #79
    How much was removed from head I something similar to this on a g13b suzuki had to modify the tensioner to sort it only it was a different tensioner than yours

    I had 20tho 1mm removed from head it doesn't sound like allot but it lengthens your belt x2 what you have skimmed then previous skim as the belt is in a loop.

    Your gonna have to find a bigger dia tensioner even from a differrnt model, I don't know these engines to we'll so I'm not sure if there is bigger out there
  80. L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Watford Posts: 49
    #80
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boylin View Post
    Just looked at the tensioners and they cant go on any other way, below pics are just taken of the new belt, new wate pump, new tensioner and old tensioner in comparisson.

    All the parts are correct, and i have tried a 2nd unskimmed head, so it can only be an issue with the block, but whats the issue with it?
    Is the diameter on the old tensioner the same as new? It looks bigger on the pictures.
  81. Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380
    #81
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gambleautosport View Post
    How much was removed from head I something similar to this on a g13b suzuki had to modify the tensioner to sort it only it was a different tensioner than yours

    I had 20tho 1mm removed from head it doesn't sound like allot but it lengthens your belt x2 what you have skimmed then previous skim as the belt is in a loop.

    Your gonna have to find a bigger dia tensioner even from a differrnt model, I don't know these engines to we'll so I'm not sure if there is bigger out there
    20thou is not 1mm
    its just over 0.5mm
    1mm=39.7thou
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  82. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #82
    i've tried 2 heads and exactly the same problem
    the tensioners are the same diammeter.
  83. Established Member Joined: Feb 2009 Hertford/Derby Posts: 1272 MG BGT, AX Gti
    #83
    Is the idler the correct size?
  84. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #84
    yeah changed the idler for a new one also and the same issue.
  85. Established Member Joined: Jan 2012 south essex!! Posts: 2442 posi blue vtrs race car
    #85
    ooh... what gasket have you used... iirc the jp4 gasket is 0.7mm rather than 1.3 of the j4... but tbh on mine ive had 10thou off the head and a jp4 gasket and mine was right at the edge of the tensioner...
  86. Infrequent Poster Joined: Oct 2013 Hook Posts: 181 51 plate, silver 1.1 saxo
    #86
    any update?
  87. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #87
    no update, haven't done anything with it since, still sitting there with the same problem.

    thinking , soon i will get the car and i can check the differences with the original engine to this engine.
  88. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #88
    headgasket measures 1.4mm and is MLS type, so there's another thing eliminated.
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  89. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #89
    FIXED !!!!!

    Bought a VTS and changed the cambelt on that engine and measured the tensioner and it measures 70mm, so i went and measured my tensioners on this dodgey engine.

    Original tensioner and replacement both meature 60mm, so i did a browse around on the internet and there's 2 sizes, a 59mm and a 70mm.

    Used the tensioner off the new engine and it fits and tensions fine.
  90. Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 649
    #90
    Out of curiosity, has it taken all this time to figure it out?
  91. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #91
    yeah, it's been standing for ages and we bought a vts about 3 months ago and just got around to changing the cam belt so i thought let me have a quick comparison.
  92. Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Basildon, Essex Posts: 1042 Citroen AX VTS
    #92
    Weird, I've only ever seen one tensioner listed for the vts (same as the one gab posted). No idea where the first one came from but the second one definitely looks like an 8v one. I would guess that the dealer you got the tensioner from is a tool and doesn't have a clue.
  93. Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B
    #93
    was banned when this was posted.. looks like an alloy block 8v tensioner

    poss dayco one..
  94. Infrequent Poster Joined: Jun 2013 Hall Green / Birmingham Posts: 139 VTS Track Car
    #94
    I cant seem to find the correct tensioner (70mm) on ebay and euro car parts are out of stock.
  95. Established Member Joined: Mar 2010 Basildon, Essex Posts: 1042 Citroen AX VTS
    #95
    Any motor parts shop should be able to supply the correct tensioner. I went into a shop near me, supplied a random VTS reg no that I found on google image search (I only had the engine) and they gave me everything I needed.
  96. Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Dec 2002 United Kingdom Posts: 8390
    #96
    Dealers still stock them.