Lotus Exige LSD/RoverMG Gearbox Question

17th August 2013, 10:32

Right some may and some may not know, the Rover gearsets fit into the 106 gearbox casing.

Lotus used the same box that rover/mg did in their Exige

Right.

So i want to use the longest rover/mg gearset possible for the turbo project but the longest one is probably not the "best" see:
Gearbox Code 1 2 3 4 5 Final Drive Used In
G6BP 3.250 1.895 1.308 1.033 0.848 3.938 S2 111S (WR "long" box)
thats the longest box they do for the rover/mg's

Right, this is the ratio setup for the exige
Gearbox Code 1 2 3 4 5 Final Drive Used In
B4BPQ 2.923 1.750 1.308 1.033 0.848 4.200 Exige S1 with LSD (CR Box)

You can see clearly that 3rd 4th and 5th are the same, final is shorter in the "long" box though.

And that 1st is 0.327 longer in the WR "long" box and 2nd is 0.145 longer in the "wr long" box also.

finally the Lotus Exige box has a Quaife LSD as standard, up to yet im not sure if the original peugeot diff is used or if the lotus/mg/rover one is used, ill have to figure that out, but going off the understanding that the rover/mg/lotus diff is used would it not make sense to use this setup

1st - G6BP - 3.250
2nd - G6BP - 1.895
3rd - B4BPQ - 1.308
4th - B4BPQ - 1.033
5th - B4BPQ - 0.848
Final - B4BPQ - 4.200

Diff - Quaife LSD

17th August 2013, 10:48

it'll likely be a rover diff as it was montego driveshafts that were used originally IIRC.

17th August 2013, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

it'll likely be a rover diff as it was montego driveshafts that were used originally IIRC.

The diff in the Exige is 100% always a Quaife LSD thats what they use

what im wondering if it makes sense to buy the exige box and use 1st and 2nd out the PG1(mg zr 160) box.

but i only need to buy the exige box IF the quaife will be used when the gearset gets put into my 106 MA box.

do you get what im trying to say?

17th August 2013, 15:16

err, not really :lol:

just fit a BE box!

17th August 2013, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

err, not really :lol:

just fit a BE box!

Nope, people still manage to rip through 3rd gear
plus its nearly a grand for a BE box conversion

if i wanted to go BE i'd just save a little longer and go for a dog box with straight cut gears

17th August 2013, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack-Cooley

Nope, people still manage to rip through 3rd gear
plus its nearly a grand for a BE box conversion

if i wanted to go BE i'd just save a little longer and go for a dog box with straight cut gears

How is it a £1000 for the be box conversion ?

17th August 2013, 16:06

might be a grand if you pay someone else for all the bits, sort it all yourself and it'll be far less.

going down the rover route will cost you significant amounts of cash as well.

you'll probably have missed that quick exiges don't use rover engines or boxes...

17th August 2013, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

might be a grand if you pay someone else for all the bits, sort it all yourself and it'll be far less.

going down the rover route will cost you significant amounts of cash as well.

you'll probably have missed that quick exiges don't use rover engines or boxes...

The Box im taking of is part of the PG1 rover range, so as far as im concerned its what i need

the only gearset that will fit into the MA box is the ones out the PG1. and the exige runs a PG1 box

17th August 2013, 18:09

but the ma is crap.

18th August 2013, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

but the ma is crap.

Very true, but it'll be a PG1 after

Told by the gearbox specialist it should be able to piss all over 300bhp which is good for me because i plan on running 250

18th August 2013, 08:31

No, itll be an ma casing, thats as much a weak point as the internals, they flex as theyre too thin between the bearings which is the main reason gears strip!

18th August 2013, 08:53

As said ive seen as many casings fail as gearsets

Ive even seen the gearbox casing fail at the engine mount studs and drop the engine on the floor out the car.....

An ma gearbox past about 180-190 hp is where youll start to struggle tbh and youll need s beefier casing
If this rover stuff worked it would be more commonly done but oh look everyone goes be

At 250hp you wont be stripping gears in one its in excess of 350 they go from what ive seen

18th August 2013, 08:57

Its well before 180 bhp in some instances, we had five failures on a group n vts, running cut slick rally tyres on belgian tarmac.

Now on be and not a single transmission related fail.

18th August 2013, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB

As said ive seen as many casings fail as gearsets

Ive even seen the gearbox casing fail at the engine mount studs and drop the engine on the floor out the car.....

An ma gearbox past about 180-190 hp is where youll start to struggle tbh and youll need s beefier casing
If this rover stuff worked it would be more commonly done but oh look everyone goes be

At 250hp you wont be stripping gears in one its in excess of 350 they go from what ive seen

Okay thanks, to be honest i've sheered a bolt on the upper gearbox side and i've snapped the casting before around the mount, not sure why i assumed it was weakened somehow never looked into it, is there no way gearboxes can be strengthened?

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

Its well before 180 bhp in some instances, we had five failures on a group n vts, running cut slick rally tyres on belgian tarmac.

Now on be and not a single transmission related fail.

You spoke about a BE conversion not being expensive.

so taking everything into consideration how much are we talking exactly.

im right in thinking that i need the BE3 or BE4 box. does anyone have any ratio numbers as i cant seem to find anything on the net.

the box itself will be between 40 and 60 quid by the looks of it. and last time i checked a V1 or V2 shaft setup from atspeed was like £1k?

18th August 2013, 19:56

Okay just looked at the BE Mount kit is £150.

The BE hub conversion is £125 per side, so £250.

And the BE driveshaft carrier is £70

thats all plus VAT. so totals over £550.

The Satchshift kit with mount ect.. is £525+vat.

but that dosnt include the hub conversions so ad another £250 for that.

Is it possible to have a BE conversion but not use a satchshift?

so all i would need is the hubs conversion, mount conversion and some kind of way to make the gear linkages work?

18th August 2013, 20:04

I payed 120 for box shafts hubs and shaft carrier. Machined hubs/spacers myself. Going to cut/weld shafts and make my own mounts. I already have satchshift so only need the conversion for that am hoping am going to be all in for less than £300 witch shouldn't be to hard.

18th August 2013, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by john-paul

I payed 120 for box shafts hubs and shaft carrier. Machined hubs/spacers myself. Going to cut/weld shafts and make my own mounts. I already have satchshift so only need the conversion for that am hoping am going to be all in for less than £300 witch shouldn't be to hard.

Where from? do they come up often on here? at the minute i have around £300-350 to play with spare since i sold my gti leathers for nearly £250 to free some cash up.

Shafts arent an issue so much as i hear one of the 205 ones fit and u just need a custom one for the other side?

as for hubs what exactly needs machining off?

18th August 2013, 22:18

A BE drive flange needs machining down to fit a later bearing and a small spacer adding, very easy for someone with a lathe, grab some used hubs from a scrappy, or buy new ones at £30 a side, add new bearings at £20 each.

no need to pay £70 for the intermediate driveshaft bearing carrier, just get one from the same donor vehicle as the gearbox casing, very important to do this as the angle of the diff on some BE4 boxes was different I believe, I paid £150 for the box and carrier.

Shafts I am going to use some 306 DTurbo ones as I have them here, as they are hollow I can adjust the lengths to suit very easily.

mountings I am going to make my own, its just a bit of plate with a few holes drilled in it and a bolt for the rubber bush, bottom one a bit more complicated but that can be done easily or even bought, if I had the cash I would just get the satchell mounting kit at £400 though, I'm going to have a crack at getting my own done first.

I managed to pick up a BE satchshift for £200, but the original saxo linkages can be modified to suit easily.

18th August 2013, 23:10

I did my conversion for less than 200quid

£120 for Box, 2 piece shaft, carrier, shifter, cables, top mount and hubs
£18 brand new 1.8 306 short shaft direct fit.
£0 for mounts, hub machining as shaft shortening (did at work)
£20 wheel bearings.
£6 for manual clutch bits from scrappy.
Obviously I used the cable shift that's personal choice.

Shortly will be working on another box that tbh will take the power/torque any body is running through a tu5 in the uk with ease.

19th August 2013, 06:37

I'm just waiting till the cars off the road for winter the. Am going to start my mounts. Been have I g for to much fun in its so do t mind replacing me boxes every few week ha

19th August 2013, 20:26

The pg1 gearset won't fit into an MA box. The r65 is the rover version.

Nick

19th August 2013, 20:42

interesting read in here.. may keep an eye out for some BE bits and bobs.

19th August 2013, 21:31

what Nick C said, i've never heard of the pg1 internals fitting the the MA (or r65) as if that was the case the metro vvc guys wouldnt be having to convert to fulll PG-1 gearboxes and a front subframe to hold it

19th August 2013, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

A BE drive flange needs machining down to fit a later bearing and a small spacer adding, very easy for someone with a lathe, grab some used hubs from a scrappy, or buy new ones at £30 a side, add new bearings at £20 each.

no need to pay £70 for the intermediate driveshaft bearing carrier, just get one from the same donor vehicle as the gearbox casing, very important to do this as the angle of the diff on some BE4 boxes was different I believe, I paid £150 for the box and carrier.

Shafts I am going to use some 306 DTurbo ones as I have them here, as they are hollow I can adjust the lengths to suit very easily.

mountings I am going to make my own, its just a bit of plate with a few holes drilled in it and a bolt for the rubber bush, bottom one a bit more complicated but that can be done easily or even bought, if I had the cash I would just get the satchell mounting kit at £400 though, I'm going to have a crack at getting my own done first.

I managed to pick up a BE satchshift for £200, but the original saxo linkages can be modified to suit easily.

Okay so a BE4 gearbox and buy the box and bearing mount off the same car. simple.

how does having hollow shafts make it easier to adjust the lengths exactly? two 306dturbo shafts brand new are £35 a pop from J+R so thats ok price wise right?

Current linkages i have are the constella strengthened ones, do you know exactly how they need to be changed?

also i have just emailed constella now as i hear they do a linkage kit for the be box on the 106's

Engine mounts i really wanted to do myself anyway, i could call in some favours and ask some of the turbo lads to measure up their mounts so i can copy them

all i need is to draw a diagram and drop it off at at fab place to get them built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazza808

I did my conversion for less than 200quid

£120 for Box, 2 piece shaft, carrier, shifter, cables, top mount and hubs
£18 brand new 1.8 306 short shaft direct fit.
£0 for mounts, hub machining as shaft shortening (did at work)
£20 wheel bearings.
£6 for manual clutch bits from scrappy.
Obviously I used the cable shift that's personal choice.

Shortly will be working on another box that tbh will take the power/torque any body is running through a tu5 in the uk with ease.

do explain this other box?

and does the short 306 shaft fit without any messing then? and i can just get one for the longer side and have it adapted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_C

The pg1 gearset won't fit into an MA box. The r65 is the rover version.

Nick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandi699

what Nick C said, i've never heard of the pg1 internals fitting the the MA (or r65) as if that was the case the metro vvc guys wouldnt be having to convert to fulll PG-1 gearboxes and a front subframe to hold it

Thanks guys, seems i've been given some wrong info then.

What i was told by the gearbox guy was as follows.

"You need a gearbox out of a 1.8 mg zr 160"

21st August 2013, 02:48

Guys does anyone have a list of cars that the BE3 and BE4 boxes came in

i have done a quick google but cant seem to return any info on the gearbox itself so i cant find out what car they came on.