VTR Tuning Advice

18th October 2013, 16:26

Hi guys, wanted a bit of advice on what else I might need to consider when doing the following. I'm looking at going for a set or bike carbs and cam. Don't need massive power, just going for a bit extra potentially and other areas like suspension and brakes are already underway. I'm aware of the advantages of ITBs but its only an 8v and don't want management costs if I can avoid it. How are the stock internals? At what level does a forged build become necessary and anyone used a North West company for work like this?

Thanks in advance

Tom

18th October 2013, 16:29

better off sticking with injection than bike carbs in my view

18th October 2013, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandi699

better off sticking with injection than bike carbs in my view

What's your reason behind the thinking though?

I know there's a manual choke to think of and fueling isn't adjusted in line with temperature but why else wouldn't you, if you don't mind me asking?

18th October 2013, 19:28

Best advice for 8v tuning - Buy a 16v

18th October 2013, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

Best advice for 8v tuning - Buy a 16v

+1 to that please be carful saying that on here I said the same earlier and got a lot of upset people responding due to me saying 16v engine over the 8v lol

18th October 2013, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomhunt85

What's your reason behind the thinking though?

I know there's a manual choke to think of and fueling isn't adjusted in line with temperature but why else wouldn't you, if you don't mind me asking?

Because bike carbs are a backwards step from injection. Only advantage over injecting is that it doesn't need remapping.
However if your dead set in fitting bike carbs. Then you'll need to run stand alone ignition system such as megajolt for the spark. A coil pack conversion (unless you can use megajolt with the original coil pack).
Custom inlet.
Correct fuel pump or a pressure regulator.
Setting up and adjusting the carbs. Ect.

18th October 2013, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by f13sta

Because bike carbs are a backwards step from injection. Only advantage over injecting is that it doesn't need remapping.
However if your dead set in fitting bike carbs. Then you'll need to run stand alone ignition system such as megajolt for the spark. A coil pack conversion (unless you can use megajolt with the original coil pack).
Custom inlet.
Correct fuel pump or a pressure regulator.
Setting up and adjusting the carbs. Ect.

Thanks for the input, hadn't considered the ignition system fully.

I appreciate that having a 16v is easier but I already have a VTR that's caged and already has some suspension and brake modifications. Plus I know the car pretty well and selling it to invest in a VTS, GTi, 172 etc. with an unknown history is a riskier option.

Not being a horsepower junkie either but want a little more power on a budget.

18th October 2013, 19:51

Well my mate had a raceland mani. Home made exhaust. Newman ph3 cam and raceland air box
And that made 106 bhp unmapped on the rollers.
1.6 vtr engine in a quicksilver.

18th October 2013, 19:52

If you already have a good brake set up and a good suspension set up I would go for, if you haven't already:

Breathing mods
Good exhaust system with 421 or 4-1 manifold
De cat
Aftermarket cam and vernier pulley
Ported and polished head work

18th October 2013, 19:53

Would really benefit from the re map tho

18th October 2013, 20:00

Thanks for the advice. You any suggestions on who to use for the mapping or head work?

Already have the filter changed and exhaust is being sorted shortly.

18th October 2013, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomhunt85

Thanks for the advice. You any suggestions on who to use for the mapping or head work?

Already have the filter changed and exhaust is being sorted shortly.

I currently have a bmc CDA induction kit for sale

As for headwork Liam from 106 owners did mine I can on you is profile name if you like and as for the mapping if you didn't want a standalone you could just have the standard ecu mapped but would be best of doing that last.
I've heard good things from Wayne at chipwizards in Rochdale Manchester he maps the standard ecu mate.

18th October 2013, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

If you already have a good brake set up and a good suspension set up I would go for, if you haven't already:

Breathing mods
Good exhaust system with 421 or 4-1 manifold
De cat
Aftermarket cam and vernier pulley
Ported and polished head work

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

Would really benefit from the re map tho

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

I currently have a bmc CDA induction kit for sale

As for headwork Liam from 106 owners did mine I can on you is profile name if you like and as for the mapping if you didn't want a standalone you could just have the standard ecu mapped but would be best of doing that last.
I've heard good things from Wayne at chipwizards in Rochdale Manchester he maps the standard ecu mate.

Cheers, Rochdale is close to me.

How big of a job is a VTS conversion? I'd need it done by a garage as I wouldn't have the time. I know the mechanics of it won't be too bad but is the electrics tricky?

18th October 2013, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomhunt85

Cheers, Rochdale is close to me.

How big of a job is a VTS conversion? I'd need it done by a garage as I wouldn't have the time. I know the mechanics of it won't be too bad but is the electrics tricky?

If you're close to chip wizards that's a bonus as for engine mine will be up for sale and has Newman phase 3 cams fitted

I use 2 mechanics who are very well priced and both could do this for you.

18th October 2013, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ldavies

If you're close to chip wizards that's a bonus as for engine mine will be up for sale and has Newman phase 3 cams fitted

I use 2 mechanics who are very well priced and both could do this for you.

You can send me some details on that if you want. Where you getting it done and how come it's coming out?

18th October 2013, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomhunt85

You can send me some details on that if you want. Where you getting it done and how come it's coming out?

Will drop you a pm now mate

1st November 2013, 16:35

As said previously, carbs will be difficult to get right and also theres emissons to think about for the MOT plus the cost or sorting the electrical side out properly.
You'd probably find its less hassle to sort a decent cam kit out, rallye head perhaps too and then have a remap to suit or get some rallye management spliced in to fit your loom.#
What gearbox do you currently run too?

1st November 2013, 19:37

If you want to stick 8v then have a look on my progress thread. You won't need forge internals at this stage. Only issue is when you go mental with the cam, the valves come too close to pistons so the piston will need to be changed.
If you can get hold of a s2 rallye head then get one. Has bigger and better everything.
Im currently at 150bhp, running a 645 cam which is as lairy you can go without valve contact. If you want to go a bigger spec, forge internals are quite unknown territory on 8v's but people have done it.

2nd November 2013, 11:11

I cammed my 03 VTR with a newmans ph3 cam, no remap.

I also had the head ported/polished/skimmed, valve springs at the same time.

I noticed a big difference as the engine pulled hard to 6000 rpm rather than being out of breath at 5000.

I would also recommend a VTS box for added acceleration.

3rd November 2013, 12:51

The Rallye head is a good shout and not something I'd thought of. It's currently running the standard VTR box (feels like longer ratios than my Focus ST had) but as my release bearing is noisy I'd already considered swapping the box out. It drives round town mainly and gets on track at Oulton so it isn't needed for prolonged high speeds.

The carbs didn't bother me too much for MOT as I have a pal for sorting that out.

VTR_Craig - Who did you use for the headwork?

MR_N - Thanks for that, I'll check the thread out.

3rd November 2013, 16:26

No problem mate

4th November 2013, 11:42

Any engineering place/cylinder head specialist can do it

I just used a local car engineering company.

4th November 2013, 12:30

sorry to bump this, but MR_N i wanted to look at your progress thread you mentioned. but i cannot seem to find it, can you post a link or something please?

thanks

4th November 2013, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_N

If you want to stick 8v then have a look on my progress thread. You won't need forge internals at this stage. Only issue is when you go mental with the cam, the valves come too close to pistons so the piston will need to be changed.
If you can get hold of a s2 rallye head then get one. Has bigger and better everything.
Im currently at 150bhp, running a 645 cam which is as lairy you can go without valve contact. If you want to go a bigger spec, forge internals are quite unknown territory on 8v's but people have done it.

not trying to decry your motor or say its not a good conversion /
BUT
no way you will get a REAL 150 bhp with out using a cam that needs cut outs in the piston
thats 50% + increase on std power !!!
for real 150+ bhp you will need ITB,s and wild cam and at least cut outs in pistons or special forged pistons .
as for being unknown terrority -- been done many times before over the last 20 years on all sorts of 8v Tu engines by real tuners - carbs definately a backward step --you need fully promgrammable ecu to get seriuos power
yes wayne at chip wizards can do it to your ecu --but don,t go until you have completeled all mods or it will cost you another £3-400 for another remap
this is hwy a predator ,which is plug + play to your wiring loom is the most economical way to get the flexibility you you are looking for. or go for a stand alone of your choice ,which could be moved to any other car later if you wish

15th November 2013, 11:49

Well after all of your advice I'm going boosted. Thanks for comments though guys and I'll get a progress thread up once I'm underway.