1321743 Ultra Fast Road Cams - ANYONE GOT THESE ?

27th January 2014, 10:48

Mehhhhhh

27th January 2014, 12:17

Had a set previous engine. Require dyno setup to tune cam timing.

27th January 2014, 13:22

Yea I had them there ok, no difference in driveability to 708's.

They don't regularly produce over 150 though 145-150ish is a more realistic figure than 155-160.

27th January 2014, 13:43

I have, best you can get on standard pistons.

Made 140 on one dyno and then 153 on another... so...

27th January 2014, 14:22

Mehhhhhhh

27th January 2014, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

Well I'm aiming to try get a solid 160bhp, and am considering using these Camshafts, I've done abit of digging and seen people produce 161bhp 163bhp 159bhp, with breathing mods, cylinder head mods (ports matched, polished, gas flowed, and re seated valves a very small skim to make sure the head is totally flat) All done the same mods but different breathing mods and quality of mapping and cylinder head work but all produced around the same figures, 140bhp on a J4 with good breathing mods and a map is pretty poor... BlackBox

On the dyno day I made 140bhp, the highest hp a cammed car made was like 143 and it had a jp4 head.

Since i made 153 on another dyno, you can see there is a lot of varience between dynos.

I'm sure you could find a dyno that would give you 163hp for these cams.

27th January 2014, 14:47

Every roller will have different results, you cant just pick the highest ones and say thats fact.

The average for a vts with breathing mods, cam and remap was always in the 140>150 area. Some record higher, some lower dependng on the rollers, ambient conditions etc...

27th January 2014, 15:14

I'm sure with head work and some breather mods,4 branch and decat system you'd see 150+ I'm sure.

And as has been said,depending nowhere you go the figures vary.

27th January 2014, 15:29

I'm considering a set of these myself, but something to keep in mind is that chasing figures never ends well...

27th January 2014, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by chompy

I'm considering a set of these myself, but something to keep in mind is that chasing figures never ends well...

Depends on budget,if you have it then getting decent figures is easily achievable.....us poor scottish cunts will need to settle for low power

27th January 2014, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by wullvfr

Depends on budget,if you have it then getting decent figures is easily achievable.....us poor scottish cunts will need to settle for low power

I'm not saying that it's not achievable, it certainly is. But trying to hit a number isn't really the way I'd go about it. More look at the drive-ability then take the figure that comes with it.

Yes, i agree there haha!

27th January 2014, 16:48

Mehhhh

27th January 2014, 16:54

sudden spikes/flat spots will be even more apparent when going full pelt

27th January 2014, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

BlackBox 140 and 143 is not good a t all for the mods you have done, there should be at least 5/10 more bhp in it, but your cars not all that quick anyway?

You live close enough to me to come see

It feels quickish to me, though I am getting ITBs soon.

27th January 2014, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

I don't need "drive ability" it's going for hillclimbs and track days, it's gonna be at full chat most of the time, I think I'm gonna go for a set of these and il post the progress as I go along, BlackBox 140 and 143 is not good a t all for the mods you have done, there should be at least 5/10 more bhp in it, but your cars not all that quick anyway?

It's well known that 140-150bhp is normal for 16vs with decent cams/map and breathing mods!
So I wouldn't say it was poor, no 2 engines are the same and different dynos give different results.

Never seen the point of chasing figures! Just pub talk!
It's all about how it drives and power delivery etc

27th January 2014, 17:09

I would expect a vts with 140-145bhp to be decent enough as it weighs about the same as the turd I did this morning.

27th January 2014, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

Well I'm aiming to try get a solid 160bhp, and am considering using these Camshafts, I've done abit of digging and seen people produce 161bhp 163bhp 159bhp, with breathing mods, cylinder head mods (ports matched, polished, gas flowed, and re seated valves a very small skim to make sure the head is totally flat) All done the same mods but different breathing mods and quality of mapping and cylinder head work but all produced around the same figures, 140bhp on a J4 with good breathing mods and a map is pretty poor... BlackBox

You wont get a solid 160 without itb's you may find a dyno that will read you this figure but it wont be true!

Iirc you made a thread a while ago about getting 160bhp and being polite i dont think your listening properly, keep asking the same questions expecting us to give you the answer you want wont happen, its that simple...

Breathing mods and 743's will get you about 145-150, you may push 151 or 153 but thats on a good day on a dyno thatll give you a helping hand...

Listen and learn, n/a is expensive for power!! Simple!! You want n/a power you start paying!!

27th January 2014, 18:46

The above answer is right, you wont make 160+hp without itb's with these cams. And to be honest, as much as I dislike Newman, if you want the best power possible with off the shelf parts & without touching the bottom end then you should use some at power itbs and Ph3's. Without headwork on the same dyno (were I made 151) as mine at around the same time another engine made 167hp.

You also need to stop worrying about engine hp and worry about whp and torque if your using it for hillclimb

Here is some more info. My car was the development engine for the 743's.

Saxo Vts
Catcam 743's (evo1 on rs graph)
Raceland 4-2-1
Straight through 2 1/2" centre pipe
Magnex rear box
Port & polished throttle body
Remapped

Rs tuning - Leeds - Dyno Dynamics - (Without P&P TB)
144.1 bhp
117.9 whp
18.39% T/loss

Northampton Motorsport - Northampton - Superflow (before & after P&P TB)
151 bhp
126.9 whp
15.961% T/loss

Revlimit is 7750 the last run on the NMS graph revved over for some reason but it didnt effect the power, if anyone can explain that id love to know!

Surrey Rolling Road - Surrey - Dyno Dynamics
141.3 bhp
115.6 whp
18.19% T/Loss

27th January 2014, 19:48

Mehhhhhh

27th January 2014, 20:07

If it's for hillclimbs and track days, why are you so hung up on power figures? As Tom has shown, the same car on different rollers gives very different figures.

If you're not notching pistons, the 743s are pretty much the best option available to you. Regardless of where you take it for power runs after fitting and mapping, you're realistically only going to have in the region of 150bhp ATF with the standard inlet.

27th January 2014, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

Northhampton motors ports have a Friendly rolling road aha, and you got tho figure without any head work what so ever, And if these cams aren't the ones that make best power without itb's then what are? On rallye register there are people claiming standard TB 160bhp left right and center on "cup car cams" of which piper make some all most identical I'm told, But I throught 743s where better than them ? Or are they just better value for money

To be honest there road is quite well known for being accurate. People claiming 160hp on standard inlet with off the shelf parts are talking bollocks to be frank. You can make that power but not with minimal changes. which changing cams/exhaust/map is.

These are the best cams for use with a single throttle.

They ARE NOT the best for use with standard bottom end and ITB's.

You can make 170+hp on a standard bottom end if you spend the time on the head, recessed valves along with wilder cams and other things can give you that but your talking about an absolute mind field of combinations.

I've seen people make 155hp with a standard engine on certain rolling roads.

Also in the same context, Jeffchiz had his rolling roaded and mapped at Northampton rolling road, he had 708's jenvey itb's and aftermarket management and made 154hp.

Basically chasing a figure is for idiots, its pointless, you can adjust dynos to give you what ever you want within reason.

Your better off deciding on a budget, and seeing what sort of spec you can build for that budget.

For me the best N/A change for the money is:

ATPower/Sandy Boddies
PH3 cams
Piper 4-1 with full system
Emerald/Omex/Predator ECU

27th January 2014, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5190

To be honest there road is quite well known for being accurate. People claiming 160hp on standard inlet with off the shelf parts are talking bollocks to be frank. You can make that power but not with minimal changes. which changing cams/exhaust/map is.

These are the best cams for use with a single throttle.

They ARE NOT the best for use with standard bottom end and ITB's.

You can make 170+hp on a standard bottom end if you spend the time on the head, recessed valves along with wilder cams and other things can give you that but your talking about an absolute mind field of combinations.

I've seen people make 155hp with a standard engine on certain rolling roads.

Also in the same context, Jeffchiz had his rolling roaded and mapped at Northampton rolling road, he had 708's jenvey itb's and aftermarket management and made 154hp.

Basically chasing a figure is for idiots, its pointless, you can adjust dynos to give you what ever you want within reason.

Your better off deciding on a budget, and seeing what sort of spec you can build for that budget.

For me the best N/A change for the money is:

ATPower/Sandy Boddies
PH3 cams
Piper 4-1 with full system
Emerald/Omex/Predator ECU

need to get mine on the rollers but my spec is

sandy gsxr1000 bodies
clio 182 injectors
743 catcams
roughness marks taken out of the head (not ported just OEM+)
rebuilt head (recut seats lapped valves)
160lbs newman valve springs
c2 jp4 headgasket (0.7mm rather than the saxo 1.3mm)
standard bottom end
4-2-1 cant remember the make (very long primarys though

)
pugsport straight through
zetec coil pack
predator management
re-timed cams

EDIT: after looking for my manifold on google images it looks very much like a piper but i dont think it is...

id hope to be about 170ish but tbh i really couldnt care, im uploading my mates in car videoing mine at brands and comming out of the last corner i pull on him and slightly down the straight..

hes got a fiesta st race car with the jamsport "200" kit, i built the engine for him and it goes well, 188bhp on jamsports rollers and i pull on him...

28th January 2014, 17:18

Back in the day 708 equipped 16v's made 157bhp regular as clockwork on various RR's throughout the country, the idea of the 743's is to round it up to a nice 160bhp.

The C2R2 max makes 190bhp without TB's but its not cheap...

Kieren, i read somewhere you'll be using a VTR box, don't. Tall gearing is no use on a hillclimb car.

28th January 2014, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_P

Back in the day 708 equipped 16v's made 157bhp regular as clockwork on various RR's throughout the country, the idea of the 743's is to round it up to a nice 160bhp.

The C2R2 max makes 190bhp without TB's but its not cheap...

Kieren, i read somewhere you'll be using a VTR box, don't. Tall gearing is no use on a hillclimb car.

c2r2 max engines arent a saxo engine tho... and the 10k they are new, for 2k extra just go to sandy... its like saying well a 1.4 16v can make 200bhp... throw enough money at it and im sure youll get there... (within reason)

i understand what your saying that you can get 185-190 out of a single throttle body but the cost is huge and its only done for competition, same reason as people tune 8v's now

28th January 2014, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyjasper51

c2r2 max engines arent a saxo engine tho...

If Kieren is running in the mod prod class on the hills he could even fit a JP4 head if he wanted to.

28th January 2014, 18:21

Thought it was that you had to run the engine that the car was produced with....

28th January 2014, 18:55

Only in the production classes.

11.5.1. For Road-Going Series Production Cars, the
cylinder block and cylinder head must remain in the
original position and be externally identifiable as that
fitted to the original model or specified option.

28th January 2014, 19:36

In Modifed production you can do nearly anything you want.

28th January 2014, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_P

Back in the day 708 equipped 16v's made 157bhp regular as clockwork on various RR's throughout the country, the idea of the 743's is to round it up to a nice 160bhp.

The C2R2 max makes 190bhp without TB's but its not cheap...

Kieren, i read somewhere you'll be using a VTR box, don't. Tall gearing is no use on a hillclimb car.

Id be surprised if the 157hp is true. When I trialled them catcams gave me two different sets and weren't sure on what the gain was going to be, but they said they would like to see 150hp.

28th January 2014, 19:47

This year I'm not going to run in any "competitive" classes I want to get he build done by the end of march and the. Tweet it to how I like through out the summer (whilst doing hillclimbs/track days) just to get to grips with the car the tracks and then come august il look at what class regulations I fall into or come closest to and go for it 2015, I'm 19 I've raced karts since 7yrs then moved away from karts at 14 and went into motocross competitively and then at 16 gained interest in cars and got my self a MK2 fiesta fitted a zetec engine stripped it out and used it on a few track days and a local gravel stage, the dad let me use his "PRIDE AND JOY" Mk2 escort 2dr GRP A 2.0 bike carbed st170 engined, and I've ever since fallen in love with old fords !!! I then got given a mk1 xsi In Miami blue the 1600 version and it changed my opinion on saxo's and 106s all together, there great little motors ! So I will seek advice on what classes to look at and where I'd find the info later in the year

28th January 2014, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by KierenCrawford

This year I'm not going to run in any "competitive" classes

They're all competitive classes.

If you strip the car you'll have to run in the modified classes, if its fully trimmed you can run in the production classes.

Might i suggest you enter the Service hydraulics speed championship, The £30 entry fee cover club membership & c'ship entry. If you've looked into joining a club you'll know how expensive some of them are...

http://speedchampionship.org.uk/

Events are from south Scotland to the south coast.

Regs/entry form.
http://speedchampionship.org.uk/wp-c...4-Final-11.pdf

3rd February 2015, 10:05

differences in terms of torque and horsepower with 715? and those with the 705?

3rd February 2015, 16:09

If its fro hill climbs and sprints first thing to do is get a proper c/r gear kit and suitably low crown wheel +pinion 4.92
that will make much more dif to times than spending loads on engine

ther is NO citreon or pug gear box that is anything like right in ratios for serious hill climbing or sprints
100mph +flat out is all you will ever need ,
our all conquering 1300cc axsport was geared for 118@8k -never beaten on any sprint or hill climb or race fro that matteranywhere in uk we competed
then once you have the g.box and lsd sorted ,thats the time to look for more power

6th February 2015, 14:24

I got 743, 4-2-1 manifold, 2" decat and simota intake.
Went from 139 to 158 after a remap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGzMlUUZj7A