P0170 fuel trim bank 1

1. Keegan Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Glasgow/ Hamilton Posts: 190 2002 Saxo VTR - 2002 Saxo VTS

   #1 19th February 2014, 19:00

   Anyone experienced this fault before and knows the cure? Any help would be great.
   
   P0170This fault code is generated as a result of long term fuel trim information.*For MM6LP as fitted to ET3 engine, this fault may relate to the oxygen sensor as early sensors were known to be faulty. However make sure there is no other cause of fuel trim being affected. Check for temperature problems. I have noticed that with excess temperature, the ECU shuts down the heater control of the Oxygen sensors.
2. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

   #2 19th February 2014, 22:28

   First thing I saw was p0170 and immediately was going to suggest lambda sensor.
   
   But it appears you've answered your own question already
   
   What happens is the heaters go faulty, the lambda sensor makes the ECU think the engine is running rich so it cuts the fuel to the point where it's so lean you've got no power and misfiring and/or hesitation depending on how severe.
   
   The "easy" way to check is to simply unplug the lambda sensor. If the engine runs much better with it unplugged, that's the culprit.
3. Keegan Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Glasgow/ Hamilton Posts: 190 2002 Saxo VTR - 2002 Saxo VTS

   #3 20th February 2014, 10:13

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by MartinObviously First thing I saw was p0170 and immediately was going to suggest lambda sensor. But it appears you've answered your own question already What happens is the heaters go faulty, the lambda sensor makes the ECU think the engine is running rich so it cuts the fuel to the point where it's so lean you've got no power and misfiring and/or hesitation depending on how severe. The "easy" way to check is to simply unplug the lambda sensor. If the engine runs much better with it unplugged, that's the culprit.

   I unpluged the pre lambda sensor and it makes no difference . I dont have a post as I dont have a cat . I have also got 2 other faults codes which may relate to this fault .
   
   P1327For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interferance.
   
   P0141O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)*MM6LP - Downstream oxygen sensor heating control. Open circuit, short circuit to positive, short circuit to earth.
   
   P0141 IS THE SECOND LAMBDA WHICH I DONT HAVE.
4. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

   #4 20th February 2014, 18:46

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Keegan I unpluged the pre lambda sensor and it makes no difference . I dont have a post as I dont have a cat . I have also got 2 other faults codes which may relate to this fault . P1327For S2000P; check ignition primary pattern for excessive peak voltage and spark line too short. Should be greater than 1ms. This fault code is usually caused by interferance. P0141O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 2)*MM6LP - Downstream oxygen sensor heating control. Open circuit, short circuit to positive, short circuit to earth. P0141 IS THE SECOND LAMBDA WHICH I DONT HAVE.

   If your car has a 3 plug ECU, it should have a second lambda sensor fitted. Codes like that aren't triggered if the sensor never existed.
   
   p1327 can be caused by a missing/broken capacitor on the coil pack.
5. Keegan Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Glasgow/ Hamilton Posts: 190 2002 Saxo VTR - 2002 Saxo VTS

   #5 20th February 2014, 20:19

   Sorry didnt explain that comment properly. It is a 3 plug and should have second lambda but I removed it as it has no cat. I dont no what I have done with the sensor so would need to buy another one if I was to fit it to see if it would remove code P0141 .
   
   Is it posible to fit a lambda sleeve to trick the sensor to work??

   1 user thanked this post: MartinObviously
6. kyle4256 Established Member Joined: Feb 2008 dundee Posts: 1844 saxo vts

   #6 20th February 2014, 21:34

   Should not remove it should just buy lambda sleeve and tie the lambda sensor up mate
7. Keegan Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Glasgow/ Hamilton Posts: 190 2002 Saxo VTR - 2002 Saxo VTS

   #7 20th February 2014, 22:45

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by kyle4256 Should not remove it should just buy lambda sleeve and tie the lambda sensor up mate

   Ok mate do you know where I could get the sleve from?
8. Kwik-Nick L-plater Joined: Jan 2012 Watford Posts: 49

   #8 20th February 2014, 23:57

   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-MAZD...item2a36610ce2
   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/90-Degree-...item417ccb6712
9. Saxovch22 Established Member Joined: Feb 2011 Scotland Posts: 1191 02 Saxo Vts

   #9 21st February 2014, 02:46

   Try another coilpack!
   If it's running the same even with the 1st lambda unplugged then it's clearly not that!
   
   I had p0170 and p0300, I changed a few things with no luck! In the end it was the map sensor
10. Keegan Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Glasgow/ Hamilton Posts: 190 2002 Saxo VTR - 2002 Saxo VTS

    #10 21st February 2014, 09:55

    Not sure how these lambda sleeves work . I thought it was just a sleeve for the sensor and you leave secured in the bay? I cannot secure sensor in to my exhaust as I have custom centre so no hope for lambda.
11. Keegan Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Glasgow/ Hamilton Posts: 190 2002 Saxo VTR - 2002 Saxo VTS

    #11 21st February 2014, 17:05

    Any info about sleeve ?
12. user_59318 Frequent Poster Joined: May 2012 Reading Posts: 804 Icelandic Furio

    #12 21st February 2014, 17:15

    http://bit.ly/1hBmrHl this is the one I used. Screw 2nd lambda in and then into my manifold.
13. Keegan Infrequent Poster Joined: Dec 2012 Glasgow/ Hamilton Posts: 190 2002 Saxo VTR - 2002 Saxo VTS

    #13 21st February 2014, 17:33

    Ok I am defo confused lol. I have 3 fault codes on my car making it run like shit and going through far 2 much fuel about 17mpg . fault 1 - P0141 second lambda fault 2 - P1327 possible coil pack?? and
    fault 3 - P0170 possible first lambda sensor ??
    I was thinking of buying a second lambda sensor and fitting a sleeve and leave in the engine bay as I dont have original exhaust so no hole !! Just to see if it clears fault P0141 ??
14. user_59318 Frequent Poster Joined: May 2012 Reading Posts: 804 Icelandic Furio

    #14 21st February 2014, 18:18

    I can only advise what I have done I am not that mechanical.
    
    Did you have your exhaust custom made? Is it specific to a saxo?
    
    What manifold do you have?
15. MartinObviously Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Dec 2012 Perth Posts: 3665 Peugeot 106 1.1 Turbo Peugeot 106 1.5D Turbo Peuge

    #15 22nd February 2014, 11:42

    If it's only doing 17 mpg...
    
    could be MAP, CTS, TPS, the small heater thing in the TB, it usually has a grey 2 pin plug. Might even be a jammed open/leaky injector.
    
    The oxygen sensor has detected that the engine isn't running at the proper AFR, so it's on it's max trim (that's your fuel trim fault)