Bent valves

1. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

   #1 12th April 2014, 08:52

   To cut a long story short I had a grinding noise coming from my engine bay, turned out the camshaft tooth had jumped one tooth. Since having a new cambelt and resetting the timing the noise is a lot quitter, but still there.
   
   So I'm guessing the valves are bent? The only other noise I have is at very high revs the car sometimes makes a massive grinding noise, and sounds really un-healthy. Other than that its a smooth 60k engine that pulls well?
   
   What's my options? Head re-build?
2. robster247 Established Member Joined: Feb 2011 cumbria Posts: 1239 Satin black furio

   #2 12th April 2014, 09:10

   If you had an idea that the pistons have made contact with the valves, you shouldn't have drove it haha,
   
   Would be probably easier getting a decant second hand head, won't do the guides any good running bent valves
3. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

   #3 12th April 2014, 09:25

   At the time I had no idea, it was only when I found out the timing was out that I realised.
   
   How much am I looking at price wise for a new head and getting it fitted, ruffly?
4. AntscVTR Infrequent Poster Joined: Aug 2012 Lancs Posts: 187 99 VTS

   #4 12th April 2014, 12:13

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Jigs2895 At the time I had no idea, it was only when I found out the timing was out that I realised. How much am I looking at price wise for a new head and getting it fitted, ruffly?

   You want to make sure it is a bent valve first. A head can cost anything from £100 - £600 and about 4 hours labor to remove the old one and fit the new one you should also add the price of head bolts £20 and a head gasket £40 as well.
   
   Are you able to do the work yourself?
5. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

   #5 12th April 2014, 13:49

   You'd kniw by the general running if the car if you had bent some valves. It would either missfire like mad or not start at all

   2 users thanked this post: blackie_2k5, user_39461
6. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #6 12th April 2014, 19:41

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by chompy You'd kniw by the general running if the car if you had bent some valves. It would either missfire like mad or not start at all

   this^
   
   even if youve just tipped a valve youll know by the running
   
   compression test the car... make sure one or more cylinders havent got a lower compression then the others (anything over 10 bar is normal and fine)
   
   have you changed the belt? are you sure youve not tightend it too much? grinding noise could be your water pump bearings fucked
7. citroensaxo Infrequent Poster Joined: Apr 2012 Kent. Posts: 246 93 BX TXi 1.6 auto,47k 88 SAAB 900i f/lft,69k

   #7 12th April 2014, 21:58

   Dear Jigs,
   First thing I would do would be to whip the head off and check and see how many valves are bent and also see how many valve guides are damaged.
   It is an easy job to rebuild the head, just make sure you have it skimmed and pressure tested prior to refitting with all new gaskets etc etc new stretch bolts.
   Does yours have maually adjusted tappets or hydraulic ones ?
   Vince,
8. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #8 13th April 2014, 19:48

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by citroensaxo Dear Jigs, First thing I would do would be to whip the head off and check and see how many valves are bent and also see how many valve guides are damaged. It is an easy job to rebuild the head, just make sure you have it skimmed and pressure tested prior to refitting with all new gaskets etc etc new stretch bolts. Does yours have maually adjusted tappets or hydraulic ones ? Vince,

   
   why would you do that when its not clear theyre damaged?????
9. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #9 13th April 2014, 20:29

   A few years ago a guy I know had a 1.8 kseiries metro that slipped a tooth or so on the pulleys and the valves lightly touched the pistons - not enough to bend them but enough for it to tap fooling the guy into thinking it had done some bottom end damage. Very rare I know but it's possible. As said compression test it and go from there before pulling things apart
   
   
   Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
10. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

    #10 13th April 2014, 20:34

    Any ideas on what might be causing the very loud grinding noise at high revs then, it's definitely coming from the engine.
    
    I don't often drive it to high revs, but it bothers me because I want to get the car on a dyno run but with that noise at high end it doesn't sound healthy.
11. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #11 13th April 2014, 20:44

    Try and identify what area it's coming from, by your description could be a bearing somewhere -cambelt tensioner, alternator, water pump or maybe not even there could be gearbox related
    
    
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
12. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

    #12 13th April 2014, 20:55

    Well the cambelt and water pump has just been replaced so that dismisses them.
    
    My best description of it is just a loud crunching/grinding noise, it also seems to bog the car down just a tiny bit, nothing major, and only occurs at very high revs 5000rpm +
13. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #13 13th April 2014, 21:03

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackie_2k5 this^ even if youve just tipped a valve youll know by the running compression test the car... make sure one or more cylinders havent got a lower compression then the others (anything over 10 bar is normal and fine) have you changed the belt? are you sure youve not tightend it too much? grinding noise could be your water pump bearings fucked

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jigs2895 Well the cambelt and water pump has just been replaced so that dismisses them. My best description of it is just a loud crunching/grinding noise, it also seems to bog the car down just a tiny bit, nothing major, and only occurs at very high revs 5000rpm +

    its got more chance of being something like this, could be fucked pump or cambelt tensioner..or just too tight... is your alt belt too tight? try removing the alt belt and briefly trying it to rule that out
14. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

    #14 13th April 2014, 21:11

    Sorry I haven't been very clear, the noise occurred before the cambelt and water pump change also.
15. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #15 13th April 2014, 21:17

    post a video- easiest way to get an idea
    
    you sure its not something daft like exaust clamps or something rattling at high revs
16. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

    #16 13th April 2014, 21:44

    No it's defiantly something within the engine grinding, I think it would be very hard to get a video, I'm not sure if it does it when idling.
    
    I suppose if it doesn't do it when it's idling and reved high then it would pont to a gearbox issue?
17. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

    #17 13th April 2014, 22:01

    Could be the diff. Is it maily when you lift off?
18. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

    #18 13th April 2014, 22:10

    No, quite the opposite, high end revs and I've so far heard it in 1st 2nd and 3rd
19. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #19 17th April 2014, 20:07

    theres so many things it could be...without seeing it, its nigh on impossible to even attempt to work out it would be
20. johnnyg_vts Established Member Joined: Dec 2006 Fleetwood Posts: 2244 2002 Saxo VTS

    #20 19th April 2014, 22:31

    Have you compression tested it yet?
21. jockyb Infrequent Poster Joined: Sep 2013 Derby Posts: 150 Wicked Red Citroen Saxo 1.6 VTR 2003

    #21 20th April 2014, 10:51

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jigs2895 No, quite the opposite, high end revs and I've so far heard it in 1st 2nd and 3rd

    
    You can afford petrol to run your car in first second and third , up to 5000 rpm??