Important! : Help! Timing messed up

1. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #1 11th June 2014, 14:21

   Ok so I've gone out to advance my cams by 120 degrees as Newman say it should be. I took the belt off, taped my timing angle gauge thingy to the cam pulley, rotated it forwards by 120 degrees and put it all back together, turned it over by hand and a piston hit a valve so got on my adjustable pulley and tweaked it a few degrees retard (I had a feeling I went slightly too far) and it turned over by hand fine, but then it didn't start up...basically I've been playing around for 3 hours now, tweaking the degrees and turning over by hand to make sure then trying to start it and it wont start. The timings so far out now and I haven't a clue where standard timing is again and the car won't start at all, it turns over but not start. I'm getting fed up of the stupid thing now, someone just sort it for me pleease.
   Any ideas
2. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

   #2 11th June 2014, 14:45

   Set everything to TDC and start again from fresh. but 120 degrees sounds a lot to me
3. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #3 11th June 2014, 14:49

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by chompy Set everything to TDC and start again from fresh. but 120 degrees sounds a lot to me

   How do I do that? They're phase 3 cams, definitely said 120 degrees!
4. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #4 11th June 2014, 15:00

   hence why noting the marks where it was in the beginning might have been a good idea
5. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #5 11th June 2014, 15:02

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Gandi699 hence why noting the marks where it was in the beginning might have been a good idea

   First time doing this, didn't think of this till after but there must be some way of getting it back to standard timing
6. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

   #6 11th June 2014, 15:19

   There should be a cam lock position on the pulleys and head. along with on the crank to set them both to TDC.
   
   The same places you use when changing a timing belt
7. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #7 11th June 2014, 15:24

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by chompy There should be a cam lock position on the pulleys and head. along with on the crank to set them both to TDC. The same places you use when changing a timing belt

   I have a baker bm pulley wheel
8. welshpug Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jul 2010 South Wales Posts: 3078 ZX 16v, 205 GTI, 309 Goodwood, 405 MI16.

   #8 11th June 2014, 15:26

   WWWOOOOOOAAHHHH!!!!
   
   you turned your cam by 120 degrees?! WTF?! Newman would never tell you to do that.
   
   you need a dial gauge and set it to whatever Newman say the lift should be at TDC, or the more faffage way is to set the PEAK lift, which should be closer to 108 degrees.

   2 users thanked this post: chompy, luthor1
9. user_57064 Established Member Joined: Jan 2012 south essex!! Posts: 2442 posi blue vtrs race car

   #9 11th June 2014, 15:36

   on what lobe? 1 or 4? french 1 or english 1? inlet or exhaust? sure its not 180 degrees out?
10. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #10 11th June 2014, 15:37

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by welshpug WWWOOOOOOAAHHHH!!!! you turned your cam by 120 degrees?! WTF?! Newman would never tell you to do that. you need a dial gauge and set it to whatever Newman say the lift should be at TDC, or the more faffage way is to set the PEAK lift, which should be closer to 108 degrees.

    I have a dial gauge! I honestly just want someone to do it for me, I'll pay but no ones bothered cos they say its just a Saxo
11. user_57064 Established Member Joined: Jan 2012 south essex!! Posts: 2442 posi blue vtrs race car

    #11 11th June 2014, 15:38

    id do it but your a long... way away
12. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #12 11th June 2014, 15:46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by greyjasper51 id do it but your a long... way away

    Haha I'll pick you up!! I honestly just want anyone to do it, I'm not experienced enough to be doing this I don't think and I'm getting fed up and impatient with it
13. user_15516 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 6640 Integra DC5R & VTS

    #13 11th June 2014, 16:35

    Is this an 8V engine? If so, you'll probably have to put your original cam pulley back on to lock everything at TDC again. Then I would fit your (zero'd) vernier pulley and mark TDC on the block with some tip ex.
14. user_57064 Established Member Joined: Jan 2012 south essex!! Posts: 2442 posi blue vtrs race car

    #14 12th June 2014, 15:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jbrady72 Haha I'll pick you up!! I honestly just want anyone to do it, I'm not experienced enough to be doing this I don't think and I'm getting fed up and impatient with it

    
    No need
15. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #15 12th June 2014, 15:53

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by greyjasper51 No need

    Haha indeed! Thank you so much for the help!
16. Alfie09 Frequent Poster Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 579

    #16 12th June 2014, 21:08

    120deg is a hell of a long way to advance the cam
17. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #17 13th June 2014, 01:26

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Alfie09 120deg is a hell of a long way to advance the cam

    
    Turns out it should have been 110. Did 110 and it's fine now
    
    
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18. Duffy Xsi L-plater Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 94

    #18 19th June 2014, 22:15

    Anyone have any idea wether a standard cam can be advanced to any benefit?
    
    
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19. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #19 19th June 2014, 22:18

    you might gain a couple HP or so but its a waste of time in reality the cams will be timed to spec from the factory
20. Duffy Xsi L-plater Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 94

    #20 19th June 2014, 22:28

    Building a track car using all standard engine except port and polish an lightened components. Just wonderin if adjusting standard cam would benefit. And which can would I advance and how much?
    
    
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