converting to coil and leads

1. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #1 22nd July 2014, 20:09

   right im gonna convert to coil and leads on the xsi as the COP seems to be getting very hot and i wanna rule this out as a potential issue
   
   should be able to run the 8v set up with no probs id have thought?
   
   i know the ford zetec conversion is also pretty common
   
   after some input??
2. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

   #2 22nd July 2014, 21:02

   There's a cracking discount on 106oc for an aftermarket setup. 10% off retail I think.
   
   In terms of standard, fairly sure it's a straight swap. Never done it though
3. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #3 22nd July 2014, 21:26

   cheers mate
   
   think ill probs end up robbing the ford parts bin, should be able to get all i need for buttons.. just looking to see if theres anything i should know/better alternatives before i make my mind up
4. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

   #4 22nd July 2014, 21:33

   Should be a straight swap. When I did it from 8v vtr to leads I lopped the coilpack plug off a jp4 loom from a c2, worked just fine and fit the pug 4 lead coilpack
   
   
   Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
5. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

   #5 22nd July 2014, 21:33

   Seem to remember an aftermarket set up being mentioned a while ago on gmc's website.
6. user_20551 Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 107

   #6 22nd July 2014, 21:41

   with the ford one you need the little plug that goes with it, Same as the MSD then wire the plug into the standard wires it doesnt plug straight in but cant se eit being that hard to do
7. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #7 22nd July 2014, 21:43

   yeah ill make sure i grab a plug with whatever i go for
   
   cheers lads
   
   anyone know the pin outs for the wires?
8. user_20551 Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 107

   #8 22nd July 2014, 21:47

   From Atspeeds website
   
   For citroen/peugeot users: this is correct for MOST citroen/peugeot - use as guide only.
   Ford Pin > Saxo Pin
   Violet 1 > 1
   Yellow 3 > 2
   Red 2 > 3
   UNUSED > 4X
   
   http://atspeedracing.co.uk/products/...roducts_id=283
9. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

   #9 22nd July 2014, 22:03

   nice one. make life alot easier that will
10. user_20551 Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 107

    #10 22nd July 2014, 22:06

    Sure it will if it works, I need to do the same mate for my MSD coil I intend to fit,
    
    I just need to get my finger out and stop being lazy lol
11. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #11 22nd July 2014, 22:07

    ill find a ford pack and leads this week and bang them on before i send the ecu away
    
    shame as they make the bay look messier then it already is lol
12. user_20551 Infrequent Poster Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 107

    #12 22nd July 2014, 22:14

    that is true mate but sometimes needs must, As said I had the same problem as you and it didnt happen alot and I thought it was either an overheating fuel pump or coil pack
    
    Just strange how it never done it when I had more than a half tank of fuel which made me think fuel pump, all these bits should be changed this time round so time will tell.
13. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #13 22nd July 2014, 22:18

    well thats the way mine started.. then seems to have gotten worse.. see if i can get to the bottom of it
    
    bang coil and leads on, put and inline fuel pump in to supplement the OE pump and then im 100% good to go
    
    any issues will solely lie in the ecu then
14. djx11b Frequent Poster Joined: Mar 2008 Glasgow Posts: 565 Saxo Vts Mk1 1997

    #14 23rd July 2014, 12:06

    Done this recently on my build got the ford zetec coil pack and leads and cut the ends off all fitted on nicely and did find the car to feel better when driving after it.
    
    I didn't have the ford coilpack 3 plug connector but you can get one of ebay for about £12.50 brand new (eBay item number:111137071962)
    
    Fitting was easy found the 12v wire with a multimeter from original wiring and then connected the other two original wires in to the other new pins. I got it right first time but if it didn't fire would have just swapped these two over .
    
    Good luck with it maybe helping out your issue
15. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #15 23rd July 2014, 13:29

    Well worth the effort. Mapping will give you longer dwell times on the coil - which the stock coil hates. Ford coilpack is a good option.
    
    Of course, you could always do it properly...
    
    
    
    
16. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

    #16 23rd July 2014, 13:52

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ross Well worth the effort. Mapping will give you longer dwell times on the coil - which the stock coil hates. Ford coilpack is a good option. Of course, you could always do it properly...

    What the hell is that and where do i get one?
17. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

    #17 23rd July 2014, 14:28

    Ross probably has no idea, he'll have bought it, had it fitted, never seen it and sold the car

    2 users thanked this post: user_39461, user_46658
18. deano_123 Established Member Joined: Nov 2011 Newcastle Posts: 1698 Range Rover Sport

    #18 23rd July 2014, 14:46

    Mines a ford coil, big old heavy lump it is too
    
    
19. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #19 23rd July 2014, 15:00

    It's a Constella conversion - have a word with Rob and he'll fill you in. I've been specifically asked not to give details of it out because it's in testing but so far it's worked very well.
20. Alexp Central South Joined: Jun 2006 East Sussex Posts: 3105 VTS :)

    #20 23rd July 2014, 17:34

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ross It's a Constella conversion - have a word with Rob and he'll fill you in. I've been specifically asked not to give details of it out because it's in testing but so far it's worked very well.

    Can you say if its plug and play or not? ;-)
    Curious to know if it needs a custom loom.

    1 user thanked this post: user_66802
21. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #21 23rd July 2014, 17:38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Alex Can you say if its plug and play or not? ;-) Curious to know if it needs a custom loom.

    I can say it's plug and play on an omex
    
    Nah - with the right connector spliced to the coilpack wiring, you could wire this into standard wiring for sure (or any other ecu loom). Of course, it would need mapping to suit.
22. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #22 23rd July 2014, 18:14

    cheers for the input/links lads..ross im still adimant those are vag family coils lol
    
    but yeah the main reason i wanna convert is the fact the 16v COP is shit and the cit pug coils dont seem to like to run too high of a dwell
    
    the bay gets HOT on that xsi being so cramped and the COP was fucking burning to touch so its not gonna last very long like that
23. Dave gti Newbie Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 4

    #23 25th July 2014, 07:13

    I'm guessing this is a 1.6 ford zetec lead set up from a fiesta everyone's talking about? And it can be used on our 1.6 16v's?
    
    
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
24. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #24 25th July 2014, 08:15

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dave gti I'm guessing this is a 1.6 ford zetec lead set up from a fiesta everyone's talking about? And it can be used on our 1.6 16v's? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Yes, and yes (with some mods). Pointless on a standard car though. Really only "needed" for boosted cars.
25. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #25 25th July 2014, 09:05

    Pretty much most petrol ford coils can be used mate
26. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

    #26 25th July 2014, 09:13

    You can just use an 8v saxo coil and leads can't you?
27. blackie_2k5 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Oct 2008 Birtley Posts: 22253 VTR Turbo, 106 xsi track slag, Transit recovery, B

    #27 25th July 2014, 09:16

    You can yeah but on reading up the ford ones seem to give a better spark and they're a lot easier to get hold of these days then Saxo coils
28. D4MJT Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Mar 2009 Morpeth Posts: 2539 BMW 116d Regional Toner Sales Edition

    #28 25th July 2014, 09:21

    I heard the saxo ones were the tits
    
    Also I may have one.
    
    You can't have it x

    2 users thanked this post: chompy, blackie_2k5
29. Dave gti Newbie Joined: Jul 2014 Posts: 4

    #29 27th July 2014, 11:36

    But is it not worth it? Atspeed do a pretty appealing kit?
    
    
    A bit of 16v fun 😜
30. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #30 28th July 2014, 11:14

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dave gti But is it not worth it? Atspeed do a pretty appealing kit? A bit of 16v fun 😜

    By appealing do you mean "expensive"?
31. edbar1 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 68 C2 GT Track Car And A C2 GT Daily

    #31 28th July 2014, 13:55

    Looks like a good solution as replacement coils are a hell of a lot cheaper to replace than the rail coil
32. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #32 28th July 2014, 14:06

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by edbar1 Looks like a good solution as replacement coils are a hell of a lot cheaper to replace than the rail coil

    Erm... No its not. lol
    
    Standard vts coilpack is £35 brand new.
33. axsaxoman Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Jan 2003 Scotland Posts: 3380

    #33 29th July 2014, 08:21

    never found the need to use anything but std --you boys seem to have money to burn for no visible increase in peformance
    If head is getting so hot its frying the std coil pack --then its cooling you need to be looking at .
    
    If you are running3 bar of boost them maybe you need a bigger spark -
    -technically on paper it should be better -
    -but in real world its probably about as useful as indvidual cylinder fuelling and spark advance -
    -lots of ecu,s can do it --but customer never wants to pay for the timeto set it up to see a microscopic increase in power
    first thing if you want to make spark better --fit a NEW wiring loom as std one must be at least 12years and they do wear and get increased resistances in them over time --also could be where your problem is in the first place --very hard to find if not a consistant problem
34. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #34 29th July 2014, 08:42

    I think it's more the dwell time that kills them John rather than engine heat. And "most" people doing this conversion would be doing it (hopefully!) because the standard coilpack can't cope with the dwell requirements of the high rpm/high boost situation. Whereas the ford coilpack charges faster, needs less dwell, and copes better.
    
    For sure changing it on anything other than v high power / high boost is pointless - as I said earlier. I had a situation 5 odd years ago when the spark was getting blown out on the standard coilpack but was perfect on the MSD coilpack*.
    
    *Until the MSD coilpack died. What a fucking waste of money that was - ford is 1/5th the price and identical in performance. you're paying an extra £80 for a fucking red paint job and a sticker. I'm still pissed at myself for falling for that years ago!
35. edbar1 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 68 C2 GT Track Car And A C2 GT Daily

    #35 29th July 2014, 13:45

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ross Erm... No its not. lol Standard vts coilpack is £35 brand new.

    Dread to think what make your buying!
    The rail coils for anything half decent are £70 odd....
    I am talking Mk1 VTS.
36. user_39461 Super Moderator Joined: Nov 2009 Cambridge(ish), UK. Posts: 10581 BMW 5x M50d.

    #36 29th July 2014, 13:51

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by edbar1 Dread to think what make your buying! The rail coils for anything half decent are £70 odd.... I am talking Mk1 VTS.

    By half decent you mean "same supplier, different sticker"?
37. edbar1 L-plater Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 68 C2 GT Track Car And A C2 GT Daily

    #37 29th July 2014, 14:10

    No I mean a cheap Chinese coil versus a decent usually European brand and factory...
    Returns rate on cheap coils is usually very high
38. Duffy Xsi L-plater Joined: Jun 2014 Posts: 94

    #38 22nd August 2014, 09:21

    Also very intrested in that constellation setup
    
    
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
39. user_59645 Newbie Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 29

    #39 7th September 2014, 22:36

    How and where is the best way of fitting/mounting the coil please?
40. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #40 9th September 2014, 18:32

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ross I think it's more the dwell time that kills them John rather than engine heat. And "most" people doing this conversion would be doing it (hopefully!) because the standard coilpack can't cope with the dwell requirements of the high rpm/high boost situation. Whereas the ford coilpack charges faster, needs less dwell, and copes better. For sure changing it on anything other than v high power / high boost is pointless - as I said earlier. I had a situation 5 odd years ago when the spark was getting blown out on the standard coilpack but was perfect on the MSD coilpack*. *Until the MSD coilpack died. What a fucking waste of money that was - ford is 1/5th the price and identical in performance. you're paying an extra £80 for a fucking red paint job and a sticker. I'm still pissed at myself for falling for that years ago!

    Well that answers one question for me,in that there was an msd coilpack on ebay for £150.00 & I wondered if it was any good.