Car wont run :(

1. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #1 18th August 2014, 21:48

   Was out and about driving in my car for about 3 hours last night and it was fine...this morning I drove it about 15miles completely fine but as I was about to park up, it started spluttering and whenever I accelerated it spluttered and bogged down really badly. I limped into a park spot at tesco and turned it off and back on just to see and i was stationery, planted my foot hard down, it revved normally to 5000rpm, then spluttered and the revs slowly dropped with it spluttering occasionally until it hit 1000rpm , even though I still had my foot hard down, but it sounded bad so i took my foot off the accelerator.
   
   Anyway, after doing some shopping, I came back and had to limp it home at 30mph as I couldnt build anymore speed up because it would just splutter and slow down and I didnt want it to stall.
   
   I went to the scrappy in my mates car, got a TPS, fitted it....and its exactly the same So is it a case of me replacing a broken sensor with another broken one or is there anything else it could be?
   Im guessing it could just be the Throttle Position Sensor still but has anyone else had this? But its not driveable in this state and I need it because its my daily car!
2. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

   #2 18th August 2014, 21:51

   Clean the idle control valve first and report back mate.
3. Jigs2895 Established Member Joined: Jan 2013 Portsmouth Posts: 1335 1997 Mk1 VTS

   #3 18th August 2014, 22:04

   Swear your car is always broken? Lol.
   
   As above though, just go through the usual checks, ICV, coil pack, sensors etc..
4. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #4 18th August 2014, 22:05

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by stevo67 Clean the idle control valve first and report back mate.

   It feels more like a fuel starvation though, as generally the wider the throttle is open, the more it bogs and splutters?
   ICV wouldn't affect that would it? Will try anyway though
5. Mickswan Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Apr 2013 Jarrow Posts: 4022 2003 Icelandic Grey 16v VTR 1991 Daihatsu GTti

   #5 18th August 2014, 22:09

   Test your injectors
6. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #6 18th August 2014, 22:10

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Jigs2895 Swear your car is always broken? Lol. As above though, just go through the usual checks, ICV, coil pack, sensors etc..

   Has been running fine for 2months or so now! Thought I was on to a winning streak Changed coilpack as I had a spare in the garage which I know works and it was same, unplugged battery for an hour or so, reset the ICV, replaced TPS. Anything else?
7. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #7 18th August 2014, 22:13

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Mickswan Test your injectors

   How do i test them? But this was my next thing to check! I have a spare fuel rail and set of injectors in the garage so will swap them, just theyre a bit of a ball ache to swap so was trying not too haha!
8. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

   #8 18th August 2014, 22:13

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by jbrady72 It feels more like a fuel starvation though, as generally the wider the throttle is open, the more it bogs and splutters? ICV wouldn't affect that would it? Will try anyway though

   Fuel filter needing changing.
9. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

   #9 18th August 2014, 22:16

   Quote:

   Originally Posted by stevo67 Fuel filter needing changing.

   Changed it about 3 or 4 weeks ago!
10. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #10 18th August 2014, 22:35

    How are injectors on a vtr hard to swap? Lol Takes 5 minutes.
    
    
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
11. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #11 18th August 2014, 22:36

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gandi699 How are injectors on a vtr hard to swap? Lol Takes 5 minutes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Just takes a while to prize them out and push the new ones in! Will do it though and see!
12. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #12 19th August 2014, 13:28

    Ok so cleaned al sensors, had injectors off for a quick clean but al looks fine. Now car won't start at all...it does one half fire then just turns over.
    The fuel rail is getting fuel, it's getting air, I've got 2 cool packs which I know work and ive tried both but no difference.
    
    
    
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13. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #13 19th August 2014, 13:33

    Check all of your connections,you may have missed a connector.
14. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #14 19th August 2014, 13:49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevo67 Check all of your connections,you may have missed a connector.

    
    Checked all them several times over. All connected!
    
    
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15. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #15 19th August 2014, 13:52

    Disconnect battery for half an hr.
16. Wee_monkey1987 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2011 Hertfordshire Posts: 250 2000 Saxo Woodland Green VTS, 2002 Mazda MX5

    #16 19th August 2014, 13:57

    have you tried plugging the car into the OBD to get sensor values and codes? that may point in the right direction! - maybe worth checking the spark plug gaps and see if their firing correctly!
    
    also is it difficult to start? or does it fire up first time
17. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #17 19th August 2014, 14:00

    Already disconnected battery!
    And not yet but will do it tonight! Car ran fine before, was just all of a sudden.
    It used to start first time very quickly! But doesn't start at all now
    
    
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
18. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #18 19th August 2014, 14:00

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wee_monkey1987 have you tried plugging the car into the OBD to get sensor values and codes? that may point in the right direction! - maybe worth checking the spark plug gaps and see if their firing correctly! also is it difficult to start? or does it fire up first time

    Don't think the codes will be recorded unless the eml is light up mate.
19. Wee_monkey1987 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2011 Hertfordshire Posts: 250 2000 Saxo Woodland Green VTS, 2002 Mazda MX5

    #19 19th August 2014, 14:42

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stevo67 Don't think the codes will be recorded unless the eml is light up mate.

    true but depending what software you have you can still read what the ecu is seeing from the sensors.
    
    Could possibly be coolant temperature sensor aswell, but it is pretty random for it to suddenly go. Personally best bet is, as previously mentioned, check all connections, earths and sensors also double check all actuators.
    
    My VTR did this a while back, parked it, put in reverse then it just suddenly bogged, after some playing round i worked out it was the ignition coil pack and £90 later problem solved haven't had a hitch since.
    
    If it won't start i'd start by checking the major ecu sensors, map, tps, and crankshaft then go onto the coolant temperature sensor, lambda etc. Also have you tried starting it under WOT conditions?

    1 user thanked this post: chompy
20. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

    #20 19th August 2014, 14:49

    I'd be tempted to say a fuel pump issue. Take the injectors out, stick some paper under them and try turn it over.
    
    That will tell you if it is actually getting fuel into the cylinders.
    
    Also, how is the fuel pressure? Press the valve on the fuel rail and it should spurt out at quite a rate.
21. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #21 20th August 2014, 02:39

    Fuel comes out the valve on the fuel rail but doesnt really fire out, just dribbles out! Low fuel pressure, pump? The pump primed fine etc and ran well everytime before but I'm guessing a big drop in fuel pressure could be a cause of my running issues?
22. chompy Established Member Joined: Jan 2008 Scotland Posts: 1764 Because racecar

    #22 20th August 2014, 09:48

    Looks likely, does the pump run when you turn the ignition?
    
    Take the pipe off the rail and prime it, see what happens. (have some cloth handy to catch the petrol)
23. Gandi699 Saxperience Post Whore Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 9100 Amazon green VTR 16v, Inferno RS clio 182

    #23 20th August 2014, 09:52

    get a can of easy start and spray some through the TB, if its start then its a fuelling issue
24. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #24 20th August 2014, 12:50

    I tried cleaning everything and stuck it all back together again today, I changed one or 2 injectors too then tried and no luck but after a few attempts it started and idles fine but as soon as I tried to rev it, it bogged and spluttered just like before!
    Got the fuel pump out so going to look at that after lunch!
    After that I'm lost, no ideas
    
    
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25. Wee_monkey1987 Regular Poster Joined: Sep 2011 Hertfordshire Posts: 250 2000 Saxo Woodland Green VTS, 2002 Mazda MX5

    #25 20th August 2014, 12:58

    can't remember if the VTRs have fuel pressure regulators but its also worth taking a look at that as that will cause low fuel pressure too.
26. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #26 20th August 2014, 16:35

    Yeah they do and yeah that was one of the first things I checked as I've got a 3, 3.5 and 4 bar regulator so tried all and still same.
    
    
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27. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #27 20th August 2014, 16:38

    Went to scrappy and managed to get the fuel pump from a 1.1, stuck it in and it starts and runs! Took it for a spin and it was better but at one point whilst accelerating it felt like it just stopped fuelling then carried on fuelling and kicked into life again, then when I booted it, the revs got to 3k and hit like a rev limiter for a few seconds.
    Then after these mishaps it ran ok but just doesn't feel as quick or doesn't rev up as fast so guessing it's not the same as a VTR pump??
    
    
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28. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #28 20th August 2014, 17:18

    Could anyone shed some light on this for me?
29. Mickswan Saxperience Forum Bum Joined: Apr 2013 Jarrow Posts: 4022 2003 Icelandic Grey 16v VTR 1991 Daihatsu GTti

    #29 20th August 2014, 17:33

    Reading a few different threads the pressure from a 1.1 pump is different to a VTR. Although it looks like the pump is the same but the regulator is different.
30. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #30 20th August 2014, 17:41

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mickswan Reading a few different threads the pressure from a 1.1 pump is different to a VTR. Although it looks like the pump is the same but the regulator is different.

    I havent changed the fuel pressure regulator? Surely thats what determines the pressure?
31. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #31 20th August 2014, 17:54

    Think the pump needs to be from the same spec saxo mate.
32. user_64763 Established Member Joined: Jun 2013 York Posts: 2134 Citroen Saxo VTR (2001)

    #32 20th August 2014, 18:57

    urrghhh none of the 4 scrap yards near me have any VTRs in
33. user_20080 Saxperience Hardcore! Joined: Dec 2007 smurfland. Posts: 17346 Ex saxo owner.

    #33 20th August 2014, 19:19

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jbrady72 urrghhh none of the 4 scrap yards near me have any VTRs in

    I'm sure they'll be a few in the for sale section.