Saxo VTR preparing for track

12th September 2014, 13:57

hi everyone, just want some advice from the guys who have been on tracks with their saxos & what preperation you did to your cars.
-performance
-handling
-general experience of what it was like in a small car like a saxo
- upgrades

my car is a 2002 plate VTR with no modifications only owned 4 weeks & bought for a track toy but want to keep it road legal.
98k miles with part service history (mileage worried me with it being high?)
the things i am thining of doing before i book up to go on a track is
- ful service
- both drive shafts as they are both clunking & need changing
-drop links
-track rod ends
-bushes
-engine mounts
-Cat back exhaust (saxsport Scorpion 3")
- enclosed induction kit (unsure on this mod as i might keep standard air box & just use panelfilter)
-drilled & grooved brake discs & mintex pads all round

if anybody can give me there input or advice it would be great im completly new to this and only ever been on a track once in a friends scooby with his supervision and knowledge & it was amazing!

sorry if this is in the wrong section

cheers

12th September 2014, 15:30

I've done a few track days and the best thing to do is to get the handling and breaking sorted 1st

I'm in the same boat as you got a vts for weekend and track use so I've striped the car off all interior and stuff order all new shocks springs rear lowerd new rear breaks got 4 yokahams tires just hoping to find some big breaks for the fronts got 2 sparco buckets seats and 4 point harness

Once every thing is fitted it will be 4 wheel aligned then I will do a few track days and see how it goes and take things from there to improve the car and my driving

Also think off having an instructor in with you as he will improve you driving skill most tracks have them and they don't cost that much

12th September 2014, 17:13

cheers for that advice mate!

you are lucky to have a VTS around my area there was 1 for sale but sold within hours of it being listed, im not saying the VTR isnt a good car because it is a cracking 1600 engine, nice & nippy.

i think im correct in saying my 2002 VTR is 98bhp? ive been reading that if i get a decent exhaust system & induction kit i should be on for 110bhp ?

i got stung on my car i bought the car cheap off a friend knowing it had a few problems like drive shafts & few other bits, but its nothing that cant be fixed, the engine is sweet!

what would be the best clutch to get ? for track & road use

cheers

12th September 2014, 18:28

I've only been on track days twice so I'm a noob at this but when it comes to preparation I'd suggest this.

Giving it a service spark plugs, filters, brake pads etc to give you peace of mind knowing its ticked off the list.

Replace anything that might be worn out. You said your driveshafts were worn out so change when and while your there you may as well change to drop links, track rods as its all in the place you can get it all sorted in a day.
As to a clutch I replaced mine with a standard replacement from euro car parts that would be more than enough.

I wouldn't worry about drilled discs just get mintex replacements or something similar. Can't remember what pads people go for depends how much you want to spend. You may want to upgrade them to a 266mm setup for more stopping power but the standard brakes can be really good with the right pads.

Most important thing I think is tyres. I have toyo t1-r that I like but I understand their not everyones favourite so have a look into what you think is best.

I'd then strip the car out. I only took the back seats and belts out you can do a lot more in weight saving.

I'd suggest doing a track day like that to see what you think needs improving. Depends on your budget on what you want to do to the car. Suspension would be first on the list getting it lowered slightly will make a big difference. strut braces too are a good addition. As is upgrading all the bushes.

As to more power you can fit a exhaust and upgrade the air filter but it won't be a massive increase in power as its only 8v. I've done it to mine and it feels like theres a increase in power but like you said only going to be a 10bhp increase on a good day. Need to spend a fair amount of money to get serious gains and you would be better off with a 16v conversion.

12th September 2014, 18:58

Cheers for replying,
I'm going stick with the 8v engine in my vtr if I can get 110bhp that will do for me, a nice exhaust and induction kit will hopefully get me where I want to be, thanks for your advice I appreciate it! And it's give me a few more things to think about

12th September 2014, 19:19

Ive done a few track days now in my VTR, watch out they get addictive lol

For the first trackday I would just check everything over and give her a good service. Mainly check the tyres and the brakes. Once you have done the trackday you will know where you want to improve the car (bigger brakes/better suspension)

Some people spend alot of money & time building there ideal trackcar but never take it one track as they have spent to long building it and get bored.

16th September 2014, 13:35

A lot of people miss out geometry, get it checked and full alignment done and it will make the world of difference

16th September 2014, 16:23

Change brake fluid as its probably past its best!

16th September 2014, 17:03

I think a 10bhp gain from induction kit and exhaust is a bit optimistic! Especially as it's a 98k miles engine, I'd say 2-3bhp gain. I've got exhaust, induction kit and phase 3 cams and I'm looking at 115-120bhp.
But yeah, I'd go for handling first, make anything you can lighter, then go for reliability before anything else, so do head rebuild, cambelt, etc. No point making it quick, head gasket going/cambelt snapping then you've no money left to fix it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

16th September 2014, 17:33

Weight (lack of) is EVERYTHING. the lighter the car, the less stress is on everything from tyres to shocks, brakes, etc so the longer parts will last, and the less the engine has to haul around (ie, quicker).

Get the car fully serviced (inc new brake fluid etc), and if it's dedicated to track days then get it STRIPPED. Everything that isn't essential remove it. Then focus on brakes and suspension - don't bother trying to make it more powerful just yet.

16th September 2014, 18:03

Brakes and suspension then go from there,not much point in a car that flies along can't stop and handles like a brick.

18th September 2014, 13:08

Id be happy to take out a standard car!

Just check fluids are ok and tyres will last a day.

Then ask yourself what would you like to change.

2nd January 2015, 11:08

As everyone else has said, handling!
Start with some decent tyres and geometry; set up to your preference and driving style, not what autodata says....
The 98bhp VTR is light enough that it doesn't really need extra power, round a track i can only imagine it would run rings round much more powerful cars through corners.

You're right about the exhaust though - cheapest and most effective mod on these models, that huge nasty cat sits at the front. I put a 4-1 manifold, straight race pipe and still have the standard backbox, instant difference. No quicker really, but much more responsive and freer revving top end. Being an 8v i should think a 4/2/1 rather than a 4/1 would yield better results, but manifolds for this are a biatch to find!

But as someone else said, it's very well and good having a car that flies in a straight line, but corners are where races are won my friend!
There are a lot of country lanes and B roads round where i am, we've had untold victories in our little 8v over cars with at least twice the power, just don't over do it or lift off oversteer will send you into a tree

3rd January 2015, 09:33

I have a vts track car it's a super little car around Mondello really holds it's own against the bigger cars out there this is my spec at the moment.

Light weight fly wheel.
High lift cams.
Exede Race clutch
OMP strut brace.
OMP quick shifter.
Super sprint 4-2-1 manifold.
Super sprint decat straight through pipe.
Kamracing back box.
Custom induction kit with Rip speed filter.
Front Koni adjustable shocks on 40mm lowering springs.
Rear AVO adjustable shocks with dropped torsion bar.
306 GTI Brake discs and calipers.
Yokohama AD08R tyres all round.

Have a cage going into it next week.

3rd January 2015, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghaz

A lot of people miss out geometry, get it checked and full alignment done and it will make the world of difference

Agree 100%

3rd January 2015, 11:10

First rule of thumb is to check the car over and fix any issues. As said check wheel alignment, but also condition of the bushes and engine mounts, cambelt and aux belt, give the car a service and a good test drive to see if anything rears its ugly head.

Modifications for me always start with the suspension and chassis. If you are going to strip it, then do so, a lighter car accelerates and breaks quicker, corners faster, handles better and wears parts out slower.

On the chassis I would remove the full interior and swap the windows for polycarbonate windows. You will save a mass of weight from the car and lower the COG. Use clear silicon round the plastic to waterproof it.
A bucker seat will be a great addition but to start run a standard seat and something like the CG-lock.

Then its time to look at suspension. This is where your budget will potentially get the biggest initial hammering as your greatest laptime gains (bar your own ability) are going to be here.
To get low and stiff you will need coilovers. Entry level is something like the Gaz GHA or BC Coilovers
These fit in the original struts. Next up is the Gaz Gold. This is their more motorsport orientated suspension kit and uses modified hub carriers to get a larger oil capacity and some negative camber.
Want to go faster? Then AST 4100 or 5100 coilovers are available at a high price!

At the rear you really need stiffer torsion bars and ARB to dial out the understeer. These are not cheap so are looking at a few hundred quid to sort.

Once you have chosen your suspension you will control weight transfer massively, there will be less weight over the front wheels under braking, allowing the original brakes to be able to work harder without locking up. You will also have far improved cornering and high speed handling. The car will turn in to the apex quicker allowing you to power out the corner earlier.

Next. A limited slip diff. No track car should run without one. These massively improve how you can apply power. You will feel more connected to the road, with the car more pointy under throttle as the car pulls itself round the corner earlier than with an open diff. I'd run a quaife or Kaaz if its a road car, but if primarily a track car then plate diff!

Thats a fair amount to do initially but its a sound basis to a trackday car.
Going further i'd be looking at all the brake pad material, suspension bushes and then tyres, and then finally engine mods.
As Pirelli used to say..power is nothing without control.

Though on the flip side an induction kit and full exhaust/manifold will significantly improve the car in both sound and performance as the VTR is quite strangled as standard.

Kev

3rd January 2015, 19:57

I'd love a LSD for my vts it's hard to get power down without it!!

5th January 2015, 12:22

If you want one, give me a call!

5th January 2015, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

If you want one, give me a call!

Are they big money??

5th January 2015, 21:47

you would probably need to save up. Cost of an LSD is hardly unreasonable considering the huge difference they make, but you have to factor having it fitted as well.

6th January 2015, 10:55

the first question should be how big is your budget
cos that will decide what will give best performance for money spent.