What Standalone ECU?

15th March 2015, 15:12

Help please. Want to get a standalone ecu. But don't know what one to get
Omex or emerald????

15th March 2015, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milney8989

Help please. Want to get a standalone ecu. But don't know what one to get
Omex or emerald????

Better to find a mapper you trust and like. Then go with their preference. Either Omex or emerald are well supported by mappers.

I would sway to emerald with more features as standard (vs Omex 600) but let your mapper decide. Don't discount other ECU's - DTA etc. avoid KMS though.

15th March 2015, 16:49

Well I love a stones throw from at speed racing so it would be them that do the mapping and they are omex dealers, but like you I'm swayed toward the emerald

15th March 2015, 16:54

One could say a mapper who is also a dealer has a vested interest in selling the products that make them the most profit, not necessarily the product best suited to you.
Choose wisely.
If you're a stones throw from at speed racing you're also a stones throw from Steve Greenald @ Track n Road. Who's ONLY interest is mapping, not selling.
I wouldn't use anyone other than Steve personally.

15th March 2015, 16:58

Okay. Will take your advice and give him a go. Do you have a contact for him? Cheers

15th March 2015, 17:27

Ive pm'd you his details

15th March 2015, 17:43

Really appreciated Ross. Thank you very much for your tips and help. Will give him a call tomorrow

16th March 2015, 13:08

Here you can see my own microsquirt PNP setup:

The Spanish Megasquirt dealer builds them. It uses a microsquirt module, an"intermediate" board with all the required components and connections to suit the original loom and the standard connector. Programmable input/outputs, shift light, launch control, turbo control etc, bifuel, double ingnition and fuel map... All these things in the original ecu case and stock look.

You can get it for 535 euros (380 pounds).

Very happy with it, works perfect.

16th March 2015, 17:57

Like Ross said, I wouldn't discount DTA, still an excellent product and most of the dealers are still about and very helpful if you have any issues, the only stumbling block would be getting it repaired, however the need for this is particularly unlikely.

also DTA themselves didn't produce them inhouse, but outsourced to another manufacturer in the UK, so you may possibly be able to send it there.

My own personal direct experience is with Sandy Brown, well worth getting down there as he knows the engines inside out as well as the mapping, there's probably loads of people closer than the 300 mile round trip to myself, or my mate Dan from west Wales's 500 mile round trip, but well worth it.

You didn't say what the engine spec or needs are, but an S40 or basic Emerald K3 or Omex 610 will suffice most needs, you most likely won't need all the bells and whistles the more expensive ones offer.

16th March 2015, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

Like Ross said, I wouldn't discount DTA, still an excellent product and most of the dealers are still about and very helpful if you have any issues, the only stumbling block would be getting it repaired, however the need for this is particularly unlikely.

also DTA themselves didn't produce them inhouse, but outsourced to another manufacturer in the UK, so you may possibly be able to send it there.

My own personal direct experience is with Sandy Brown, well worth getting down there as he knows the engines inside out as well as the mapping, there's probably loads of people closer than the 300 mile round trip to myself, or my mate Dan from west Wales's 500 mile round trip, but well worth it.

You didn't say what the engine spec or needs are, but an S40 or basic Emerald K3 or Omex 610 will suffice most needs, you most likely won't need all the bells and whistles the more expensive ones offer.

Thanks for your response. Basically I want throttlebodies and to run them standalone is required which is a small fortune by the price lists not going to have much change out of 1000. Lol. Just wanted to see I already have cat 743's and ported polished head, lightened flywheel and alternator belt pulleys. Piper 4-1 mani into saxsport system.

16th March 2015, 21:42

You're not tooo far off there, depends what you have already and if you can build it yourself, probably nearer 1500 in reality if you take into account mapping (£300 with sandy if you arrive well prepared, a bit more if a wideband has to be fitted cam timing checked bodies balanced and idle set etc)

thats for bodies all done and running I mean, I made my own loom, bought bits used here and there, built all myself.

dta as a brand may be back under a new owner hopefully.

16th March 2015, 22:24

Well an omex system is looking at £610 posted from ebay! Cheapest one by £100 ATM, and loom is £150 from Atspeed, I'm crap with wiring. Lol. And at power throttlebodies are around £850! So it's £1700 just for parts sure things used to be cheaper!

17th March 2015, 07:00

I wouldnt use at power bodies, have a chat with Sandy.

at are expensive and dont make the power a jenvey or bike body inlet can do, Sandy is developing something with Titan too.

dta is under £600.

17th March 2015, 15:56

no price on titan yet --but it will be more than AT fairly sure if it has the carbon trumpets he posted in pictures --sandy will tell you when its finalised

DTA is closed at present --death in family and i am told he has decided to give up --but would expect someone to carry it on --he must have thousands of ecu,s all over the world
i would buy it myself -if i were younger

17th March 2015, 22:03

17th March 2015, 22:07

17th March 2015, 22:08

17th March 2015, 22:15

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I sourced these today for. £200 come with pipercross sock filters . They are unbranded but they don't look like bike carbs ! What you guys think? ?????

17th March 2015, 22:42

Look like they could be KMS throttlebodies

18th March 2015, 05:45

bargain, bin the socks, get an itg filter and backplate.

18th March 2015, 09:53

Yeah I snapped them up seemed like a really good price.
I quite like the socks! Y u think bin them and replace?

18th March 2015, 17:26

because they sap power badly and can also be ingested by the engine...

18th March 2015, 17:55

Okay. Will get rid of them then! Do any backplates fit for another air filter

18th March 2015, 18:21

you need to get the right one for whatever filter you buy and cut the holes to suit.

18th March 2015, 18:24

Okay . You got any idea where I could get one from. Cheers

19th March 2015, 15:32

yes kms -- just make sure the sbutterflies are postioned correctly on shafts --eg they fully close without sticking -- was a common problem --just not enough time spent in assembling them --they will work fine

19th March 2015, 17:03

The Titan TU5J4 throttlebodies are finished and I think retail at £1350 + vat. Sandy has been working on the JP4 setup. It sounds like they will have a version that will fit without cutting the bulkhead as their normal kit. Sandy uses something a bit longer so I'm not sure if they will sort him something custom.

Its more expensive than other brands but its certainly well engineered...

19th March 2015, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

yes kms -- just make sure the sbutterflies are postioned correctly on shafts --eg they fully close without sticking -- was a common problem --just not enough time spent in assembling them --they will work fine

Okay thanks for identifying what make they are. Everything seems good with them they open and shut okay! If they get sticky is there anyway of saving them or are they nakured when they do it?

19th March 2015, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

The Titan TU5J4 throttlebodies are finished and I think retail at £1350 + vat. Sandy has been working on the JP4 setup. It sounds like they will have a version that will fit without cutting the bulkhead as their normal kit. Sandy uses something a bit longer so I'm not sure if they will sort him something custom.

Its more expensive than other brands but its certainly well engineered...

Would love them! But they are way out of my price league. Lol

19th March 2015, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamRacing

The Titan TU5J4 throttlebodies are finished and I think retail at £1350 + vat. Sandy has been working on the JP4 setup. It sounds like they will have a version that will fit without cutting the bulkhead as their normal kit. Sandy uses something a bit longer so I'm not sure if they will sort him something custom.

Its more expensive than other brands but its certainly well engineered...

Awesome.
When can we expect some details on the setup?

20th March 2015, 09:56

The J4 or JP4?
Drop me a pm. I think I have details for both now..

22nd March 2015, 01:21

Check your inbox

22nd March 2015, 09:14

I Wonder what the power results are. I bet they are hard to beat

22nd March 2015, 15:08

Bit of help needed. With my throttlebodies that I've just bought and now know are kms throttlebodies. What would be the best set of injectors to use on this setup? Also what bar fuel pressure regulator to use?

29th March 2015, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milney8989

Bit of help needed. With my throttlebodies that I've just bought and now know are kms throttlebodies. What would be the best set of injectors to use on this setup? Also what bar fuel pressure regulator to use?

Can anyone help?

27th April 2015, 22:03

My vote would be Omex .
Good backup,sharp throttle response ,lambda that works.
And now soon Omex are doing their own throttle bodies!

27th April 2015, 22:08

Injector choice bhp and fitment dependant.
Clio 182 injectors but these are nearly maxed out at 180 bhp btw

28th April 2015, 07:01

theyre 250cc at 3bar, I dont think theyre anywhere near maxed out at 177 bhp.

mi16 214's will go to 180 bhp.

28th April 2015, 10:36

unrelated - what bore size are the turbo guys running?

2.5"?

can't see it needing much more than that!

28th April 2015, 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokeandpoke

unrelated - what bore size are the turbo guys running?

2.5"?

can't see it needing much more than that!

2.5" becomes restrictive at around 350hp from my experience. At 400hp, we saw 7psi of back-pressure on a 2.5" system.

28th April 2015, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

2.5" becomes restrictive at around 350hp from my experience. At 400hp, we saw 7psi of back-pressure on a 2.5" system.

Wow. Talk about tarmac eater....
So realistically for a daily driver, 7-8 psi boost, 2.5" is spot on as i can't imagine it would exceed 250bhp

2.5" before the addition of the turbo, nothing but detrimental to performance?
One would imagine there wouldnt be much velocity at all, very bogged down, massive loss of low/mid range power

got the 1.1 centre pipe on it atm just for the sake of box elimination (and the fact it cost a tenner) - although i've done my homework now and its a tad too small, restrictive even on standard power, N/ASP 2" is OK from what i've gathered from a couple of different guys.

Purely curious as i've found a place not too far that gave me a good quote for a s/s straight through for a 2" (before i thought about boosting)

The engine in the R runs sweet as a nut no knocks no squeaks - even on 149k - but i've been offered a '57 vectra on the cheap so wont be off the road when i have the funds to turbo the saxo! As such i think it's on the cards, understand the mechanicals of it, just doing my homework first, ironing out all the creases so when build time comes it's all laid on.
Trying to cost everything up, once this is done i'll need to find a mapper relatively close to me as well as a management system.... i'll be back

Thanks Ross

28th April 2015, 11:19

No problem. And yes, I'd agree a 2.5" system is unlikely to be advantageous on a NA engine, unless on the upper limit of tuning (200+ hp). But this isn't my area of knowledge so... YMMV

2.5" on a sensible power boosted saxo is plenty yep - up to 250hp you'll be absolutely fine.

Most people building boosted saxos buy an intercooler and boost pipes, a cheap second hand turbo, and then realise it's not that easy

I hope to see more boosted builds done soon so don't give up

28th April 2015, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

No problem. And yes, I'd agree a 2.5" system is unlikely to be advantageous on a NA engine, unless on the upper limit of tuning (200+ hp). But this isn't my area of knowledge so... YMMV

2.5" on a sensible power boosted saxo is plenty yep - up to 250hp you'll be absolutely fine.

Most people building boosted saxos buy an intercooler and boost pipes, a cheap second hand turbo, and then realise it's not that easy

I hope to see more boosted builds done soon so don't give up

YMMV?

As i thought (about the 2.5"). That's exactly it, buying the parts is the easy bit... Should anyone know of anyone who's giving up on their turbo build and wants to sell me the bits i'd gladly take them off your hands!

As a different engine will be going in it it will give me time to sort out everything else, the rubbers damaged on one end of the s/rack and there's a rust hole in the strut tower near the top mount, but as i say i'd rather strip it right down and find any niggly bits before i build it and a strut comes flying through my bonnet!

I'd say its worth doing if i'd be investing the time and the money, build it once and build it right! Bit of welding, reinforce any bits i don't think are any good, as i say a bit of rust on the strut and the inside of the wing (rust is only one side?) but at least then i can see what i'm working with and build her from the ground up instead of getting £1500 and uncountable man hours in and realising it's falling to bits.
Whoever had it before me did a fucking awful job of painting the underneath and engine bay, it's all black but flaking off so i will remove and paint PROPERLY.
That will be more work than anything i should think, just getting the shell structurally sound.

I feel OK about the engine work, the art is in the timing and mapping rather than bolting it all together. Will need to find a mapper at some stage in the future but we've a trusty family mechanic should i get stuck on the build.
Will leave the cam timing to the mapper probably as never dealt with aftermarket cams (which it will need i should think)

Coilovers probably on the cards for a turbo build as shes just on 40mm gmax springs on standard struts right now (i know, cringe)
she was never meant to be a keeper!
266mm brake set up is a must have either way, going to make my own bias valve too as mine is fucked.

Boosting is SO much more than just the engine, i think thats what a lot of people don't realise, they just see the big BHP figures other guys have posted and give it a crack.

As i say i used to be quite into building/tuning and built a few different things, we had a season in bmw rdc, a luego for sprints etc, i've had a child and all the other joys (if you can call her that) life brings between then and now. time to get back into it

28th April 2015, 12:15

Up to about 300hp standard vts/gti cams work really well actually.
Brakes - yes, you'll need those...
Coilovers not essential - I ran on -50mm eibach springs and bilstein shocks for many years with boost. Once above 400hp though, I needed to change from b8's to GpN's as we were bending the b8's when accelerating and they gave up...

29th April 2015, 12:43

RE suspension - That is fucking brutal!

Well that's one thing off my list, wasn't too sure if the standard cams would have a suitable profile.

I've seen a few people set it up but never found out if it actually runs, has anyone had a working bodge job manifold set up? By this i mean where the turbo flange is welded to where the cat was?
The standard manifold - even before the cat looks horribly restrictive, doesn't look as if it aids flow at all its totally the wrong shape, can anyone tell me otherwise?
If it works (reliably) then that could shave a fair few hundred quid on a manifold.

Not ideal i know - it will never flow as well as a tubular mani would, but it'd only be the bit where it initially joins to the head, the rest would be a proper bore size. It won't be overboosted, and if it can work and still give out 118bhp on a standard car surely it would take 7psi!

Sorry to keep going on, experience is the best teacher though and you guys have more than i!

30th April 2015, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross

Up to about 300hp standard vts/gti cams work really well actually.
Brakes - yes, you'll need those...
Coilovers not essential - I ran on -50mm eibach springs and bilstein shocks for many years with boost. Once above 400hp though, I needed to change from b8's to GpN's as we were bending the b8's when accelerating and they gave up...

more likly bending on braking -only big pistons are woth fitting to any saxo
300bhp up is 3" on N/a -so same goes for turbo -same amount of gas to make 300bhp

30th April 2015, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by axsaxoman

more likly bending on braking -only big pistons are woth fitting to any saxo
300bhp up is 3" on N/a -so same goes for turbo -same amount of gas to make 300bhp

Cheers for clarifying John - yep, not sure on why they bent, but they did. Most disappointing as they were only about 1000 miles old

And whilst I agree with 300hp upwards should be 3", I did several builds with a 2.5" system and it "wasn't a problem" (although doubtless could have freed more power). It was only when we hit a bit of a roadblock at 400hp I really looked into it.

4th May 2015, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by welshpug

theyre 250cc at 3bar, I dont think theyre anywhere near maxed out at 177 bhp.

mi16 214's will go to 180 bhp.

I've mapped it on the Omex and looked at the duty cycle .it wasn't a guess.
This is on realistic rolling road also.

7th May 2015, 10:21

all depending on what AFR value you run
anything over 170bhp @flywheel I Would fit bigger

the std calcultion is 80 % of capaity is bhp so std saxo ones at 215X80%=172bhp @13.1 afr--lift fpr from 3.0 bar to 4.5bar then you will get another 10% out of them while keeping duty cycle in correct band make it 12.1 and you won,t get that
and if its boosted then you need to run richer to stop transient dets --so again too marginal