Saxo VTS Ignition Map / Table

29th August 2017, 12:24

I ran into a problem mapping my Saxo VTS with Newman PH3.
I could only find one chiptuner to do so, but he is specialized with VW and Audi mostly 2L TFSI and 3L TDI...
So AFRs are fine no problem because of the wideband, but we ran into a Problem with ignition timing.
Because i have the old single plug ecu, you cant just plug in an obd2 plug and read everything. I found a way to show me the ignition advance using a tool from Peugeot called Diag2000, that thing is bigger than a pc.
Tried several different Gutmann, Delphi, some 30quid ebay handheld shit which could do absolutly nothing. Some of them could display water temperature, O2 voltage, inlet airtemperature and so on but nothing shows the knock sensor.

The only thing I have for knock is like this 40 quid gauge, which hast 3 green Leds one orange and one Red one.
We have set this gauge up via the poti on a friends saxo vts which is completely stock.

So I'm asking you if someone is willing to send me an ignition map for a Saxo VTS with Newman PH3s, this would save me a lot of trouble.
Only for some sort of reference, how far we can go with the ignition.

Stock looks something like this in his programm.

29th August 2017, 22:27

They aren't ignition maps. The raw values and the actual advance figures (with the function option enabled) are wrong. (unless they have been changed to strange values)

The old Snap on MT2500 with the Citroen pod will give you live data.
It also allows you to reduce ignition timing by a global amount, should you wish.

These engines aren't particularly ignition sensitive at higher revs but more advance low down does help, as does a reduction in fuel where the VE is less than stock.

What is your ECU number (the last three) 16225,### ? (assuming it's a single plug with the tables above being 8-bit)

30th August 2017, 10:12

Ok then raw values, thats the point, he says there is something like a "Rechenfaktor" (computing-factor?) and if he doesnt know that factor, we cannot translate to real timing advance. But the values should be the stock ones

I've asked so many Citroen and Peugeot Dealerships, if they have anything that will read something on my Saxo, best try was the Diag2000. No one has an MT2500.

What does "VE" stands for? Does that mean it wont do you much benefit turning it up high in the rev range?

SinglePlug and 8bit yes, and the number is "16225.684".

30th August 2017, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelastone

Ok then raw values, thats the point, he says there is something like a "Rechenfaktor" (computing-factor?) and if he doesnt know that factor, we cannot translate to real timing advance. But the values should be the stock ones

I've asked so many Citroen and Peugeot Dealerships, if they have anything that will read something on my Saxo, best try was the Diag2000. No one has an MT2500.

What does "VE" stands for? Does that mean it wont do you much benefit turning it up high in the rev range?

SinglePlug and 8bit yes, and the number is "16225.684".

The factor is 0.5 degrees/byte with zero offset, so a Decimal value of 46 is 23 degrees. zero is TDC
For ignition timing values after TDC you go down from 255 (which is -0.5 degrees, 254= -1.0 etc etc.)

You can get an MT2500 super cheap these days because they are very old now.

VE is volumetric efficiency.

16225.684 is the latest version of the single plug used on the NFX

What's your email address?

1st September 2017, 11:03

Ok hope he know's how to use the factor but it sounds pretty straight forward.

I tried to borrow one from a dealership, but I will look on the internet and search for one.

Yes, latest version since i it looks completely like a Facelift Model but I have the old single plug ecu.

I will send you a private message with my Email Adress.

24th September 2017, 16:39

Hi, I'm a new user from italy, I wanted a couple of info (I've seen some users are very knowledgeable).
Do you have the saxo vts 16v 2 stock ignition table ?
and the ignition table of ECU citroen Sport?
i want to see de difference.

P.S i have megasquirt ecu

24th September 2017, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chipwizards

These engines aren't particularly ignition sensitive at higher revs but more advance low down does help, as does a reduction in fuel where the VE is less than stock.)

what do you mean?
to high RPM the 1.6 16v like less advance and and rich AFR?

24th September 2017, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyEvo

P.S i have megasquirt ecu

Well you'll end up throwing that in the bin sooner or later so you might as well do it sooner and tune the stock ECU...

Saxo/106 GTi 'Cup' engines had different cams to stock, so the fuel table, ignition tables, idle speed and rev limits are different to stock.

If your motor is stock then the stock ECU is fine; save your money. Don't believe BS tuners claiming power gains of any more than 2-3bhp.

24th September 2017, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyEvo

what do you mean?
to high RPM the 1.6 16v like less advance and and rich AFR?

With this statement that you quoted above I am referring to the effects of bigger cams on the mapping.

24th September 2017, 20:05

On my Saxo i have installed the megasquirt and it works fine but i have mounted many on turbo cars but it is my first experience on aspirated car and saxo.
I look for a base of original ignition table and I found this

Values should be divided into half

but I was curious to see the ECU Saxo Cup ignition table

P.S this is my saxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClMKt85MLgo