Another possible option for TBs set up

15th June 2007, 11:50

Hellooooo.

Something rather interesting has occured.

I friend of mine who runs TBs on his Citroen ZX has sadly decided to give up on his car as the bottom end went the other day, and he's not looking to get it fixed. He's aware I was looking for a similar TB set up for my 106, and has offered me his whole kit for a very cheap price.

Here's a list of all the parts:

weber alpha ecu
weber alpha loom
45mm webber throttle bodies (http://www.webcon.co.uk/alpha/thrott...price_list.htm) the prices listed here are for bare bodies with no injectors,fuel rails,or anything
throttle linkage
4 silicon trumpets as seen on all the throttle body pics on webers site
4 injectors
fuel rail ect
fuel pressure regulator
initia switch and fuel pump relays
idle control valve
coil pack + ballast resistors
all sensors throttle position, water temp, air temp crank position and the trigger disc to match
weber sequential gear shift light (http://www.webcon.co.uk/alpha/shift_light.htm)

OK, so it's an Alpha set up... This means that with the management can only be set up by an Alpha complient garage. The issues are:

1) The crank position / trigger disk will need to have a fabrication to fit on my bottom pulley.
2) I will need an inlet manifold as his won't match mine. So I need to also make sure I'm not going to run out of room between the cylinder head and the bulkhead.

Northampton Motorsport have come quite highly recommended for setting Alpha kits up, so I will get on the phone to them. In the meantime, does anyone have any comments about what I'm looking at doing here? Does all this seem possible. From what I've discussed with the owner, this should work out fine.

15th June 2007, 14:36

personally feel 45mm a bit of an overkill. however i need to look into the webeer system more and in inlet manifold etc..

they look similar to jenvey dcoes, so may be able to use the sandy brown inlet manifold for a nice long inlet tract

15th June 2007, 21:25

i used 40mm weber alpha bodies 1st time round . . . erm . . . clumbersume and awkward design, awful very heavy linkage and you will need to use the larger injector style as per bosch range.

If you do go for them go for one of Sandy Brown inlet manifolds to make the most of going for dcoe style set up.

exactly how much are you able to get the set up for ?

Jenvey or KMS everyday over weber even if these are cheaper.

but . . . depends on budget etc, northampton motorsport for mapping will not be the most competitive in pricing but will turn out a good job, they mapped my old MBE ecu pretty well.

16th June 2007, 16:49

Thanks for the information.

He wants £750 for everything that I've listed above. Do you think it's worth it?

Would the Bosch injectors be an issue? What's a Sandy Brown inlet manifold?

16th June 2007, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Thanks for the information.

He wants £750 for everything that I've listed above. Do you think it's worth it?

Would the Bosch injectors be an issue? What's a Sandy Brown inlet manifold?

get on the rallye reg dude all will show the sandy inlet. its designed to give a more longer/striaghter inlet tract similar to DTH bopdies. irc its 200/250 for the price of the inlet so that makes 1k allready

personally id just get some new DTH and save all the arse ache of fiddling with getting them to work right.

16th June 2007, 17:02

Is it really going to be much harder doing it this way? That shows how much I know really doesn't it! Haha.

When I got that quote from Matt at QEP - Remember, it was 2K after VAT... Well, I don't remember him mentioning anything about injectors, sensors, fuel pump, fuel regulator, etc, etc. I really don't understand mate, please help!

16th June 2007, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Is it really going to be much harder doing it this way? That shows how much I know really doesn't it! Haha.

When I got that quote from Matt at QEP - Remember, it was 2K after VAT... Well, I don't remember him mentioning anything about injectors, sensors, fuel pump, fuel regulator, etc, etc. I really don't understand mate, please help!

as far as im aware the DTH from kms/qep you run std injectors and possibly the std fuel rail you have etc..

2k wasnt just for the bodies from matt was it?

i just know of a friend who bought some (cheap dcoes) and has spent more now than a new DTH would have cost.

on ssc there is possibly a group buy on the kms bodies and its only like 600 a set new from that! so get on ssc

16th June 2007, 17:07

http://www.saxosportsclub.com/Forums.../start=30.html

16th June 2007, 17:08

http://106rallye.co.uk/newforum/show...798#post433798

better info there

16th June 2007, 18:21

Thanks for all your help Ryan.

Here's what Matt said when I asked him for a breakdown of everything I will need for the set up:

KMS ECU £420 + Vat
Adaptor Loom (for single plug cars) £120+ Vat
KMS Wideband Lambda Sensor & Controller £240 + Vat (£300 + Vat for display option)

Direct to Head TB's £900 + Vat (Inc air horns & Linkage)
TPS Sensor £30 + vat

Does this seem correct?

16th June 2007, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Thanks for all your help Ryan.

Here's what Matt said when I asked him for a breakdown of everything I will need for the set up:

KMS ECU £420 + Vat
Adaptor Loom (for single plug cars) £120+ Vat
KMS Wideband Lambda Sensor & Controller £240 + Vat (£300 + Vat for display option)

Direct to Head TB's £900 + Vat (Inc air horns & Linkage)
TPS Sensor £30 + vat

Does this seem correct?

yes id expect it to be something like that, it s a tough call dude, atleast for 750 you get the ecu aswell, its a tough call but something id do alot of research into before buying, speak to chris as he said he had them before and ask for more information from him

16th June 2007, 19:04

what about a gmc setup or in that still 5 people have got to buy

16th June 2007, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullit

what about a gmc setup or in that still 5 people have got to buy

gmc set up no longer made, gmc want a few orders before they do it again

16th June 2007, 19:38

yeah i meant the new one

16th June 2007, 19:44

Spent cheap an get cheap thats all i can say mate

16th June 2007, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullit

yeah i meant the new one

new one isnt a proper ITB set up, even they admitted it wont perform as well as itbs, and is there to meerly help idle

16th June 2007, 20:18

im sure the figues john shown were alright. i remember craigs thread when he was covering his options

16th June 2007, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullit

im sure the figues john shown were alright. i remember craigs thread when he was covering his options

john backtracked later saying that it wasnt an improvement, and generally ewould only improve idle, hence why its not gone into production

16th June 2007, 20:38

didnt catch that bit. okies

16th June 2007, 20:53

So is the verdict looking like

?

16th June 2007, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

So is the verdict looking like

?

find out the costs of mapping etc..

a larger outlay sometimes is chaper in the long run

16th June 2007, 21:15

I've already said to my friend that I'm not going to buy the kit now. He needs to seel the stuff, so I can't keep him waiting while I waste his time...

So, I guess the plan is still with QEP... But this won't be anytime soon, I'm hard up, as I went way over budget with the buckets and then bought a bloody gearbox. I'm such an idiot, the most crucial thing I need to do something about is the engine management, and I've left it way too long.

16th June 2007, 21:17

Thanks for all the advice BTW!

16th June 2007, 21:22

just save up then, at least if hes selling it else where your not worrying about being skint for ages!

the gearbox was a good buy! its cheaper than lots of bhp and will give good results

16th June 2007, 21:26

Id spend the extra money and get a good setup, otherwise it may lead to problems further down the line!!

16th June 2007, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtr130

Id spend the extra money and get a good setup, otherwise it may lead to problems further down the line!!

True, it seems the right thing to due.

Ryan - For sure the gearbox was a good thing to do! I'm just kicking myself because I have ignored the engine management side of things. My car is running on the Chipwizards map that was done when it only made 140bhp because of the powerflop exhaust system. I've also installed a big valve head, so I think it will be much better after the TBs and standalone ECU get done!

The idle at the moment is shocking. And I've got this other problem that's getting worse, and that's the car getting really jumpy when deaccelerating. I'm hoping all this be sorted with a standalone...

16th June 2007, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

True, it seems the right thing to due.

Ryan - For sure the gearbox was a good thing to do! I'm just kicking myself because I have ignored the engine management side of things. My car is running on the Chipwizards map that was done when it only made 140bhp because of the powerflop exhaust system. I've also installed a big valve head, so I think it will be much better after the TBs and standalone ECU get done!

The idle at the moment is shocking. And I've got this other problem that's getting worse, and that's the car getting really jumpy when deaccelerating. I'm hoping all this be sorted with a standalone...

i may know of a kms for sale thats been mapped on 708s if you had 6-700 spare

16th June 2007, 21:36

Inc. all the loom and that?

16th June 2007, 21:37

Nahhh!

What am I talking about! ! !

That would be silly, I really need to get everything done at the same time...

16th June 2007, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Inc. all the loom and that?

as far as im aware, i read someone i know saying he was offered it but cant afford it atm.

17th June 2007, 03:10

at the end of the day youve gotta go with your gut feeling. any doubts which i think you have you prob better staying away