What would you do....

11th July 2007, 17:36

Ok ive been stuck between ideas for my phase 2 furio since i got it and i really cant decide what to do. I have 2 options, keep the 1.4 engine and do what i can with it or do a conversion.

Ive quickly priced up each, and a conversion is without doubt the cheaper and quicker route to go. For the same price as a full exhaust system and induction kit i could just fit a bigger engine.

If i was to go the route off a new engine, i think i can get my hands on an s2 106 rallye engine, which looks the same as a vtr lump but kicks out 110bhp and revs to 7250rpm. I may get away with insuring it as a standard vtr, meaning insurance is more affordable than a vts. Plus, i would have a fairly unique saxo.

Just wondering, what would you guys go for? And would fitting the s2 engine be a bigger job than fitting a vtr/vts lump?

Thanks in advance

11th July 2007, 17:40

I would vts it mate but the rallye engine sounds good aswell,would of thought its more hassle to convert tho

11th July 2007, 17:42

any engine conversion is similar in ball ache tbh if its a tu engine, you usually need the same parts.

the rallye one may be slightly different as the engines are slightly more basic than the 16v.

you wouldnt get away with insuring it as a vtr, engine code is different (insurance acessor will check this) also you have different rockers to silvertop saxos.

It depends on your budget and how far you want to go with the car.

the rallye engine is good if you drop it in and thats all you want, if you want more tuning any engine will cost lots of dolla to get it to decent powaaaaa.

11th July 2007, 18:09

well to be honest 110bhp is enough power in a saxo for an 18yo. i'd love a vts, dont get me wrong, but a rallye might be more affordable.

the only other thing is, its really f*ckin hard to find a donor vts in ireland which is why i was only gonna to a vtr/rallye conversion. I have access to 2 vtr engines or this rallye one, but that's it.

11th July 2007, 18:12

rallye engines are abused alot though, so bare that in mind, id go for that tbh.

also get a good gearbox for it.

11th July 2007, 18:17

the lad that is selling it has really looked after it, its in mint condition. he is selling everything i would need for the conversion like the engine ecu loom and s2 gearbox cos he got his hands on a 16v out of a vts.

11th July 2007, 18:18

do it then.

11th July 2007, 18:20

do you think it would be worth my while?

im waiting for a reply from him already about a final price. Would it be hard to do the swap?

I wont be doing it until probably this time next year so i was gonna spend the year cleaning it all up and refurbing it in my dads garage.

11th July 2007, 18:21

go for the s2 engine they r rapid but get a s1 box if u can alot better than an s2 box. if u cam it put a 4-2-1 manifold, exhaust system and de-cat that wil shift and be goin straight past a vts

11th July 2007, 18:22

refurbing it?

if you plan to rebuild it id say it may not be as much of a deal, you could refurb a vts in that time.

if its mint id just bung it in and have cheap fun.

make sure its a good price.

engine conversions are easy if you have all the bits you need.

11th July 2007, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr

go for the s2 engine they r rapid but get a s1 box if u can alot better than an s2 box. if u cam it put a 4-2-1 manifold, exhaust system and de-cat that wil shift and be goin straight past a vts

s2 boxes are perfectly good. and he wont find an s1 box in good condition for anything less than 175 in my personal experience.

also s1 boxes limit top end, and increase fuel consumption, so not great as a daily.

11th July 2007, 18:28

yeh but leyts be honest an 8v is only gonna do 135 tops anyways. the torque u get from an 8v is unbeleviable i was gonna go down the route of puttin an s1 engine and box in mine wiv the engine mods i have on mine would have been quicker

11th July 2007, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr

yeh but leyts be honest an 8v is only gonna do 135 tops anyways. the torque u get from an 8v is unbeleviable i was gonna go down the route of puttin an s1 engine and box in mine wiv the engine mods i have on mine would have been quicker

please dont say your another one who thinks 8vs have more torque than the 16v!!!

did you not read my post about fuel consumption>

as i said try finding an s1 box aswell, i should know, i have had 2 and know how hard it is to not find a fucked one.

If he has an s2 box included for a good price its a waste of money and time trying to find an s1 box.

they use the same gearset its only the final drive that is different.

11th July 2007, 18:37

well there must b alot of shit slow vts's in essex then. every1 i have raced of the lights or from stand stil or round town i have smoked up to 80 then they come back past eventually so how is that not more torque??? dw i no about the box's jus buy any1 u can and have it rebuilt. if ur gonna start doin stuff 2 an engine ur car will drink more. ive had a few bits done 2mine and it beats alot of vts's but doesnt drink half as bad as 1 of them

11th July 2007, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr

well there must b alot of shit slow vts's in essex then. every1 i have raced of the lights or from stand stil or round town i have smoked up to 80 then they come back past eventually so how is that not more torque??? dw i no about the box's jus buy any1 u can and have it rebuilt. if ur gonna start doin stuff 2 an engine ur car will drink more. ive had a few bits done 2mine and it beats alot of vts's but doesnt drink half as bad as 1 of them

look at the figures for all the cars.

16v/8v torque figures...

a rebuild will cost 270-300 inc new seals, bearings and synchros.

petrol consumption will increase drastically with the s1 box as the car will be revving higher in each driven gear at a set speed, this also will cause extra wear on the engine, or just piss you off on a motorway lol!.

I allways find it very difficult to read your posts lol!

It seems like the kid is on a budget and wants a cheap way to get some extra performance, so half of the sugestions dont seem viable for him at this current stage in time.

11th July 2007, 18:45

well i just want the best grounding for tuning aswel, like there is no point on spending a load now when im on a budget, on my 1.4, when i could spend it on a new engine, and later on i could work on that engine, you get me?

11th July 2007, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-nut

well i just want the best grounding for tuning aswel, like there is no point on spending a load now when im on a budget, on my 1.4, when i could spend it on a new engine, and later on i could work on that engine, you get me?

tuning wise getting an 8v to have huge performance will cost lots.

If your desperate just wang the s2 lump and box in. youve got good fun for a bit, then build up a vts engine + cams if you want economic power.

11th July 2007, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

look at the figures for all the cars.

16v/8v torque figures...

a rebuild will cost 270-300 inc new seals, bearings and synchros.

petrol consumption will increase drastically with the s1 box as the car will be revving higher in each driven gear at a set speed, this also will cause extra wear on the engine, or just piss you off on a motorway lol!.

I allways find it very difficult to read your posts lol!

It seems like the kid is on a budget and wants a cheap way to get some extra performance, so half of the sugestions dont seem viable for him at this current stage in time.

i was born in essex i live in essex i speak with an essex accent i write with an essex language. sorry mr perfect. my spellin is good just write short on here because of msn it's a bad habit. you must have some of them surely

11th July 2007, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-nut

well i just want the best grounding for tuning aswel, like there is no point on spending a load now when im on a budget, on my 1.4, when i could spend it on a new engine, and later on i could work on that engine, you get me?

if u want to do a proper job wait for a vts engine and do stuff to that you wil get bigger performance from it but its not only goin to cost u more in the end if you do it properly and insure it as a vts its goin to cost you alot more mate

11th July 2007, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr

i was born in essex i live in essex i speak with an essex accent i write with an essex language. sorry mr perfect. my spellin is good just write short on here because of msn it's a bad habit. you must have some of them surely

it was a joke. chill.

If it was that bad i wouldnt be able to reply now would I.

11th July 2007, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

it was a joke. chill.

If it was that bad i wouldnt be able to reply now would I.

people always say about it but o well

11th July 2007, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by R66CE_O_vtr

people always say about it but o well

I dont know what it is but i just find it har to read. its not like every word iz wrtn lke diz bruv....

just donno, and it makes me chuckle lol

11th July 2007, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-nut

well to be honest 110bhp is enough power in a saxo for an 18yo. i'd love a vts, dont get me wrong, but a rallye might be more affordable.

the only other thing is, its really f*ckin hard to find a donor vts in ireland which is why i was only gonna to a vtr/rallye conversion. I have access to 2 vtr engines or this rallye one, but that's it.

Btw mate its not hard to find a donor car in Ireland if you know the right people and places to go.I had one for sale for a mate a few weeks back but its gone now.

11th July 2007, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steovts

Btw mate its not hard to find a donor car in Ireland if you know the right people and places to go.I had one for sale for a mate a few weeks back but its gone now.

Thats the problemo, i wouldn't have a clue to ask other than mayb posting something on fci. I rang all of the breakers around dublin, and only one place had something close to it, a gti lump with no loom, ecu or anything.

do you know of any knocking around at the minute by any chance??

thanks

11th July 2007, 22:41

Sounds like a good idea to me for extra power on a budget,go for it.

11th July 2007, 22:50

you can easily get one shipped over from scotland

11th July 2007, 22:55

ye there seems to be a lot more vts lumps going, even in england. but the problem is, shipping on sumething so bulky and heavy would be ridiculous

11th July 2007, 23:43

8v FTW!

12th July 2007, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

8v FTW!

were talking engines here james not sewing machines

12th July 2007, 14:27

~ listen to itsafastworld, he seems to know alot

12th July 2007, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

were talking engines here james not sewing machines

My sewing machine will be plenty quick enough..

12th July 2007, 18:22

you are talking 80 tops as you are in NI??

12th July 2007, 18:33

no im in the republic of ireland.

12th July 2007, 19:20

balls erm rethink I will ask around

12th July 2007, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

My sewing machine will be plenty quick enough..

not as fast as a specd up 16v

you know i dont mind 8vs, just they are not FTW

12th July 2007, 22:39

ok i know its a bit of a change but i think i wanna just go for a plain old vtr swap. after pricing up insurance on that, it seems like my best bet, and it will be a good grounding to cam and what not later on down the line. plus it seems its easier to get a vtr engine.

so, with this in mind, what exactly do i need to do the full conversion? engine, wiring loom, ecu, engine mounts, radiator etc?? I have a 2000 reg phase 2 furio with a single plug ecu if that helps. also, would the gearbox i have be ok or would a vtr one be better? would the furio radiator be ok for the vtr lump?

thanks

also what are other possible donor cars? i know a vtr or a 306 would be best, but would a c2 or 206 engine work aswel, or are they all 3 plug ecu's?

13th July 2007, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

not as fast as a specd up 16v

you know i dont mind 8vs, just they are not FTW

I know thay aint FTW..But imo niether is a VTS engine..

VTEC Maybe..

13th July 2007, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by James_Bristol

I know thay aint FTW..But imo niether is a VTS engine..

VTEC Maybe..

vtec aint a TU engine though is it numbnuts

13th July 2007, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-nut

ok i know its a bit of a change but i think i wanna just go for a plain old vtr swap. after pricing up insurance on that, it seems like my best bet, and it will be a good grounding to cam and what not later on down the line. plus it seems its easier to get a vtr engine.

so, with this in mind, what exactly do i need to do the full conversion? engine, wiring loom, ecu, engine mounts, radiator etc?? I have a 2000 reg phase 2 furio with a single plug ecu if that helps. also, would the gearbox i have be ok or would a vtr one be better? would the furio radiator be ok for the vtr lump?

thanks

also what are other possible donor cars? i know a vtr or a 306 would be best, but would a c2 or 206 engine work aswel, or are they all 3 plug ecu's?

your rad should be ok, vtr rads are only small anyway. you will need full engine loom ecu etc...

engine mounts are the same as far as im aware. id uprate them to pugsport ones if you have the cash.

306 be careful not to get an xu engine, get a vtr theres many bent ones about.

c2 engines are all 16v as far as im aware, (i dont want to research the barge range) they fit a saxo with a little bit of work

13th July 2007, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsafastworld85

engine mounts are the same as far as im aware. id uprate them to pugsport ones if you have the cash.

it all depends on how much i get the engine loom and ecu for i guess. where could i get pugsport engine mounts?

13th July 2007, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-nut

it all depends on how much i get the engine loom and ecu for i guess. where could i get pugsport engine mounts?

http://www.boutiquepeugeotsport.com/...PNO005_01.aspx

14th July 2007, 20:23

what other engines could you squeeze into a saxo without sacrificng handling etc?

would an engine out of a 206xsi or a c2 vtr/s go in? what about some sort of 16v renault engine?

14th July 2007, 20:25

i have seen a c2 engine in a saxo before to be honest there isnt alot of space to work with and so for big power it requires putting an engine on a frame in the boot

14th July 2007, 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jungle_Jim

i have seen a c2 engine in a saxo before to be honest there isnt alot of space to work with and so for big power it requires putting an engine on a frame in the boot

not really, considering you can get 250-300bhp from a boosted 1600 TU engine.

14th July 2007, 22:55

haha idiots.

100bhp for S2 rallye engine, 97lb/ft
120bhp for vts engine, 107lb/ft

8v has more torque? you make me laugh.

14th July 2007, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexR

haha idiots.

100bhp for S2 rallye engine, 97lb/ft
120bhp for vts engine, 107lb/ft

8v has more torque? you make me laugh.

but datz not da kase wen manz racing vts bo!

lol!

ive tried repeatedly alex, but they will not learn that the 8v does not produce pant wetting torque figures.

15th July 2007, 19:23

i was reading through old forums and saw something interestin in this thread about using a vtr bottom end and a furio head and not having to change the ecu or wiring etc.

is this a major job and would it be worth it? im thinking of keeping the cost of insurance down aswel as they might not know unless the engine was stripped down

15th July 2007, 19:26

It's obvious when you fit a vtr bottom end to a furio as the furio bottom end is alloy and the vtr bottom end is iron, so not only are they a different casting shape but a different material, hence they look totally different...

15th July 2007, 19:26

haha ok i was just going off what was written in the other thread