The Turbocharger thread

5th February 2012, 17:06

Thought it would be a good idea to create a thread that will help people talk turbos and get help choosing the right one. Try and get some useful stats, dimensions, specs of all different turbochargers along with dyno plots to compare specs etc.

More and more people are now turbocharging so this will hopefully get the right input to help people.

So let's get it started..
This is my dyno plot with a TD05 big 16g with 8cm2 t25 housing at just 6psi

Think it's as smooth as you will get but it's a fairly large turbo so will be a smoother delivery at low boost

Any questions?

5th February 2012, 17:17

How do you find the td05?
I'm thinking about fitting the evo 10.5 td05 I've got sitting about on my gti, and keeping the twin scroll setup,
Worked excellent on the 2litre I had it fitted too just wondering about it on a little 1600,

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

5th February 2012, 17:28

The td05 isn't too bad, especially considering it's not a ball bearing turbo.

What is you turbo off? What model evo?

The 10.5 housing would be a little big imo but if it's the TM evo 6 turbo the have a Titanium turbine wheel and with the twin scroll it could work well.. If it's a 8 or 9 turbo I'd expect it to be a little laggy but will flow 400hp so it depends what your target power would be?

5th February 2012, 17:34

Glad this thread has just popped up, just started getting bits and pieces together for my low boost budget set up. What cheapish turbo (looking to pay around £150) would be ideal for a low boost set up? Standard internals obviousy as well

Edit: looking to run approx 180-190 bhp

5th February 2012, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_O

Glad this thread has just popped up, just started getting bits and pieces together for my low boost budget set up. What cheapish turbo (looking to pay around £150) would be ideal for a low boost set up? Standard internals obviousy as well

Edit: looking to run approx 180-190 bhp

I'd personally look at buying a k03/k03s or gt17 if it were me

5th February 2012, 17:43

Gt17 would be starting be work hard on a vtr to make 190imo

Ko3s would be a good shout, even a ko3 but that might be running highish aswel for 190

Excellent for 16v wanting 190 though

5th February 2012, 17:45

is the gt17 the sabb turbo setup some people have done?

5th February 2012, 17:46

No idea what model it's off, I bought it on a whim off ebay lol,
It's deffo not a tm edition one though,
Was super responsive on my old engine was making 14psi (max boost) by 3000rpm, target power is.. What then engine will take, going to keep winding in the boost till I feel it's enough, or some thing gives. Spose will find out once it's fitted and I get mapping.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

5th February 2012, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxostuart

is the gt17 the sabb turbo setup some people have done?

Lots of diff specs of every turbo named samed thing, but yeah lots of ppl use the Saab one,

The cituning spec gt17 on actuator pressure will probs make about 160bhp on a vtr

To make it hit 190 probs need about 14psi or 1bar, which is gonna b
Run quite hot I'd have thought,

5th February 2012, 17:49

ok cheers for that. Is the ko3 off a golf??

5th February 2012, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Gt17 would be starting be work hard on a vtr to make 190imo

Ko3s would be a good shout, even a ko3 but that might be running highish aswel

Will be on a vts mate

5th February 2012, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_O

Will be on a vts mate

Sorry dude I'm on iPhone I thought it said vtr on your Dp thing

Edit- in which case all 3 would be ideal

Edited the above aswel

5th February 2012, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Gt17 would be starting be work hard on a vtr to make 190imo

Ko3s would be a good shout, even a ko3

Theres 2 sizes as far as I'm aware, the bigger one will flow 190 easily. If that's his target then it's a perfectly suited turbo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxostuart

is the gt17 the sabb turbo setup some people have done?

Yep, as said.. There are a couple of variants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gazza808

No idea what model it's off, I bought it on a whim off ebay lol,
It's deffo not a tm edition one though,
Was super responsive on my old engine was making 14psi (max boost) by 3000rpm, target power is.. What then engine will take, going to keep winding in the boost till I feel it's enough, or some thing gives. Spose will find out once it's fitted and I get mapping.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

Have you got a picture? It will be responsive on a 2.0 conpaired to 1587cc but I think with a twin scroll setup would improve things.

Depends what the rest of your spec is really.

5th February 2012, 18:00

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Saab-9-3-9...item45f5d2d4bb

So you rekon this? Is this is a decent price?

5th February 2012, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_O

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Saab-9-3-9...item45f5d2d4bb

So you rekon this? Is this is a decent price?

Rorz_vts has a cituning spec gt17 for sale for about £100 on here mate

5th February 2012, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

Rorz_vts has a cituning spec gt17 for sale for about £100 on here mate

hmmm cheers for that, he will be getting pm

5th February 2012, 18:06

complete turbo beginner, so excuse my ignorance......with say the ko3 or gt17 etc are all the flange sizes different, if so what manifold would you need, and how do you go about turbo positioning angle etc..

5th February 2012, 18:07

and for example if you use a sabb gt17 do you use parts of the sabb manifold

5th February 2012, 18:14

A lot of the flanges are different, it's unreal how many different housing/compressor combos there is..
I personally wouldn't like to adapt a standard cast manifold so I would have a manifold made or make one using the correct flange which can be bought off eBay or exhaust company's etc. The turbo will need to be positioned so everything works I.e.. Downpipe has space, inlet doesn't foul block, oil drain is above sump, boost pipes can be routed etc etc.

5th February 2012, 18:26

i had a T2 exhaust housing from an R5 turbo and a T25 inlet from a saab turbo, that would be on full boost by 2k and pull up to 7.5, would easily make 200bhp at 1 bar

5th February 2012, 18:31

Whats the gt25r's like?

Anyone know what sort of power they go upto and spool times?

5th February 2012, 19:11

Sounds ideal for the quick spooling road car Martin.

Jamie, they will make around 210-220hp@wheels at 1bar from a few results I've seen. A lovely power band and spool time for a fast road car

5th February 2012, 19:20

Complete boosting noob here.

If you're wanting to run silly power, you just need forged pistons don't you? Forged rods are just for silly rpm aren't they?

Also what can the stock inlet manifold take? Nearly bought a C2 Vts inlet the other day but just out of my price range!

5th February 2012, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Jamie, they will make around 210-220hp@wheels at 1bar from a few results I've seen. A lovely power band and spool time for a fast road car

Well looking at paxo89s turbo, his made 222atw at 14psi. What you think too it against a gt28rs? Spool time would be alot quicker with the 25?

5th February 2012, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshB

Complete boosting noob here.

If you're wanting to run silly power, you just need forged pistons don't you? Forged rods are just for silly rpm aren't they?

Also what can the stock inlet manifold take? Nearly bought a C2 Vts inlet the other day but just out of my price range!

Not 'that' simple. Torque will hurt rods just like rpm. The more torque the car makes the more strain. Multiplied when torque is made at lower rpm. There is more strain for example if a car makes 200lb ft at 3k rpm than if it makes 200ft lb at 5k rpm.
Also, the engine will become restrictive once it flows a certain amount of air so the more air you try and force in will create heat and restriction. So you might be giving the engine 30psi and making 300hp for example bit if you flowed the head/inlet and added bigger inlet valves then you would make the same power at a lot less boost pressure. Like 300hp at 20psi for example.

The standard inlet has taken upto 2bar of boost from what I have know. A c2 inlet does seem a good move and it looks well suited to flowing more air than the standard inlet. Back to back tests with the same spec havnt really been done so it's pure guesswork I suppose.

5th February 2012, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Well looking at paxo89s turbo, his made 222atw at 14psi. What you think too it against a gt28rs? Spool time would be alot quicker with the 25?

Like I said lol 210-220@wheels. Shauns car made 217@wheels with gt25r so fairly consistent.
A gt28rs is a different game all together. One turbo makes 220@wheels the other makes around 290-300@wheels depending on spec.
The gt25r will spool up around 1k-1.5k quicker.

5th February 2012, 20:03

Does anyone rough spool times etc with the gt17?

5th February 2012, 20:25

Gt17 should reach a bar by 2.2k if using a decent sized intercooler and 2" pipe going off what ive seen

5th February 2012, 20:26

But i wouldn't want to run a bar on a gt17 lol

Should be instant power either way tbh

5th February 2012, 21:04

a nice size for a 16v engine would be a GT2052 or GT2256. If i were going to turbocharge mine I would be looking for one of these two.

5th February 2012, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by yr51ocw

a nice size for a 16v engine would be a GT2052 or GT2256. If i were going to turbocharge mine I would be looking for one of these two.

I agree here Marc, the gt22 looks perfect for a small cc engine. I'm sure they make as much power as the gt25 too perhaps more?

5th February 2012, 21:29

gt20/22 will be my next upgrade since flange is the same

5th February 2012, 21:47

Seems a perfect turbo tbh, if it would be able to hold full boost till redline then it would male one great turbo. Upto 280bhp it says and no doubt would be on full boost by 3k

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...t/turbocharger

5th February 2012, 21:48

So basically if I got this gt17 that rorz-vts has got, the cituning one, i would need a cituning downpipe? What about mani?

5th February 2012, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_O

So basically if I got this gt17 that rorz-vts has got, the cituning one, i would need a cituning downpipe? What about mani?

You'd need the cituning manifold ideally. At least then you know it would all fit.

5th February 2012, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

You'd need the cituning manifold ideally. At least then you know it would all fit.

Ok. In your opinion what would you do on a budget 16v conversion in regards to turbo/ mani/ downpipe? Cheaper way of doing then buying off the shelf parts from cituning?

5th February 2012, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_O

Ok. In your opinion what would you do on a budget 16v conversion in regards to turbo/ mani/ downpipe? Cheaper way of doing then buying off the shelf parts from cituning?

I wouldn't do it a cheaper way. Unless I could make my own up I would buy the cituning kit or better. That's just me. Some people mod the standard cast manifold with an adapter plate.

There are some turbo conversion threads to take a look at. I wanted this particular thread to be more turbocharger focused.. More specialised and not just another 'how to turbo my car' thread... (not meant in a funny way though)

5th February 2012, 22:06

just looking at the 2052s very interesting what cars they came on should be easy enough to get one

5th February 2012, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

just looking at the 2052s very interesting what cars they came on should be easy enough to get one

What cars gav?

5th February 2012, 22:17

they came on some VAG group cars & some MGs I same some as in going by the common flange the T* style one most use the rest are weird triangle flanges to the manifold

5th February 2012, 22:23

Here's a decent turbo for the guys wanting upto 280hp and super fast spool.. Only thing is you need an T3 flanged manifold

eBay item number

270893202525

5th February 2012, 22:23

yeah there reasonably common. Very common on larger capacity diesels. They can be had for about £450 new!!

5th February 2012, 22:27

you know looking at the prices of the 20 & 22s they are quite reasonable new but then again if I can find out exactly which cars they came off I'm going on a hunt to get one in next few weeks dam you lol!!

5th February 2012, 22:36

What turbo you using now gav?
Only thing I can think of that could be an issue with these diesel turbos is they could run out of puff higher up the rev range, don't think this will much of a problem on the 8v but on a 16v I'd want a turbo that will allow me to use the revs

5th February 2012, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

What turbo you using now gav?
Only thing I can think of that could be an issue with these diesel turbos is they could run out of puff higher up the rev range, don't think this will much of a problem on the 8v but on a 16v I'd want a turbo that will allow me to use the revs

just using a r5 t2 now which lets be honest with what I am running it is more than enough if I was going 160+ then I'd look into changing but if one of these come up cheap enough why not.

You know with these turbos the 20&22 I don't think it matters to much I did read some where these new turbos like the ones we are talking about are designed with both applications in mind so should be ok don't know if in practice it would work though.

As said if I can get one I will give it a go one thing is for sure depending on the spec down pipe should be easy to make as one of them only use a 3 bolt flange but is flat faced unlike the saab ones

5th February 2012, 22:40

loads of diesel cars use the gt22

http://www.dieselevante.it/turbochar...fam=GT22%20VNT

5th February 2012, 22:44

2.2crd pt cruiser also run them

think they are a dual purpose turbo as gav mentioned but not 100% on that, i was looking into them a while back, seems loads of ppl in the states rate them highly, but they arent meant to perform too well when making under 160bhp

5th February 2012, 22:47

They should work well on both petrol and diesel engines, it's just these turbos seem to run very Small exh A/R.. I'd choose the larger exhaust housing if I had the option

This would help flow at higher rpm

5th February 2012, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Here's a decent turbo for the guys wanting upto 280hp and super fast spool.. Only thing is you need an T3 flanged manifold

eBay item number

270893202525

thats the exact turbo i was looking into

which is how i found the above info lol

5th February 2012, 22:54

good website that I'll have a proper look through it during the week see what cars I can go plunder

6th February 2012, 00:07

what does the td04, gt17 etc actually mean? is there any theroy to it or what? also people talk of say a t3 flange is this a certain measurment or style???

6th February 2012, 00:35

talking of dual purpose turbos i understand why is not advisable to run a diesel turbo on a petrol but wot about a pet one on a diesel as i have a gt17 that i fancy puting on my tdi landy
thanks tom

6th February 2012, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxostuart

what does the td04, gt17 etc actually mean? is there any theroy to it or what? also people talk of say a t3 flange is this a certain measurment or style???

Yes a lot of the codes mean something or another..

For example gt2860r means, GT= garret ball bearing turbo, 28= size of the turbo, 60 = 60mm compressor wheel etc that's just a simple example.

6th February 2012, 18:45

danny, what's you're fews on the V04-trim IHI RHB32 turbo from the daihatsu charade? It's on a vtr with gti-6 injectors at 4 bar with 2inch boost pipes ect...

Still to figure out what de-comp plate to buy and then book mapping!

6th February 2012, 18:55

T34

only it doesnt come on boost untill 4k

6th February 2012, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

danny, what's you're fews on the V04-trim IHI RHB32 turbo from the daihatsu charade? It's on a vtr with gti-6 injectors at 4 bar with 2inch boost pipes ect...

Still to figure out what de-comp plate to buy and then book mapping!

Tbh mate I don't know much about that turbo.
I would say the turbo was designed for a 1.3 so with your extra capacity you could take advantage of a slightly larger turbo, so at least if you did want a little more power your not choking the engine.

6th February 2012, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

T34

only it doesnt come on boost untill 4k

Yea, then all hell breaks loose

You were building your car for drag racing so spool time's not as critical

6th February 2012, 20:46

plus no lag with direct port nos

the T2/T25 i had was awsome on my VTR, it was responsive as hell (would of been loads better if the CR was higher than 6.5:1) was on full boost by 2k so had no lag when driving, id recomend it to anyone wanting to turbo a sax.
one thing worth noting about these turbos is the inlet side, ive fitted my old kit on to a 1.4 and the only difference is the 1.4 has an S1 inlet, it doesnt come on boost now till 4k.

6th February 2012, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Tbh mate I don't know much about that turbo.
I would say the turbo was designed for a 1.3 so with your extra capacity you could take advantage of a slightly larger turbo, so at least if you did want a little more power your not choking the engine.

well tbh at the price of my set up I can't complain, I do plan on going forged with a larger turbo next winter when I can afford it as I just want some form of boost for summer. By the engine choking what do you mean? I am only going to get the small turbo mapped at 15ish psi

6th February 2012, 20:50

i dont think you can run that turbo at that boost mate

ill go check the specs...

6th February 2012, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

well tbh at the price of my set up I can't complain, I do plan on going forged with a larger turbo next winter when I can afford it as I just want some form of boost for summer. By the engine choking what do you mean? I am only going to get the small turbo mapped at 15ish psi

Yep would like to see some specs of this turbo.. Exh A/R, wheel sizes inlet A/R etc compressor map ideally

6th February 2012, 20:59

cant find much in the way of specs...but i know thats a very small turbo, i cant imagine it would boost 15psi without being super hot.. if at all, actuator pressure is about 7-8psi

either way it wouldnt las long trying to push that lol

6th February 2012, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

i dont think you can run that turbo at that boost mate

ill go check the specs...

I was reading on some random shit owners club of people turning them up to roughly 15psi? Unless they swapped the turbo for something with a similar code.

6th February 2012, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

cant find much in the way of specs...but i know thats a very small turbo, i cant imagine it would boost 15psi without being super hot.. if at all, actuator pressure is about 7-8psi

either way it wouldnt las long trying to push that lol

Not worth the risk then... t25 it is

6th February 2012, 21:14

your turbo is a vq10 rhb51 standard they run 8psi on overboost 9.5psi the charrade guys run these at 1 bar but thats on a 3pot motor. Usually you can get these hybrided easy enough you'll get fast spool and pretty much instant boost but top end may struggle

6th February 2012, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Yep would like to see some specs of this turbo.. Exh A/R, wheel sizes inlet A/R etc compressor map ideally

As blackie said, finding anything on this turbo is hard

6th February 2012, 21:16

even a t25 is working hard at that boost mate, thats why im after a bigger turbo,

t25 max boost is about 16-18psi but your not supposed to run them that high without having a 360 degree thrust bearing fitted, i just planned on getting mine hybrid..but im going a for a diff unit now... even with the bearing fitted itll still be running hot for an engine that wasnt desinged for boost

mine runs fine now and doesnt over heat...but on a cold day it feels like ive got a 40bhp or so increase in power...cars always run better on cold days like..but still its running hotter then id like to run

cool is win

6th February 2012, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

even a t25 is working hard at that boost mate, thats why im after a bigger turbo,

t25 max boost is about 16-18psi but your not supposed to run them that high without having a 360 degree thrust bearing fitted, i just planned on getting mine hybrid..but im going a for a diff unit now... even with the bearing fitted itll still be running hot for an engine that wasnt desinged for boost

cool is win

you lot are making me want to go forged and t28 just now... cunts.

After speaking to john from gmc a month ago I very much doubt he would even map a t28 set up, He nearly hung up the phone on me when I suggested it

6th February 2012, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

you lot are making me want to go forged and t28 just now... cunts.

After speaking to john from gmc a month ago I very much doubt he would even map a t28 set up, He nearly hung up the phone on me when I suggested it

i was going to go t28 as on paper its doesnt seem too bad... but after speaking to gixxa the other day he said he wasnt getting full boost (thats 20psi though) till 4k...which doesnt leave much of a powerband on a roller rocker 8v

so im having a re think atm

6th February 2012, 21:26

It's all leading back to either a gt25r or a hybrid unit spec'd to my car at the min...

Open to suggestions from ppl like,

6th February 2012, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

After speaking to john from gmc a month ago I very much doubt he would even map a t28 set up, He nearly hung up the phone on me when I suggested it

lol really? A, it's your car not his B, there are plenty of other people who can map for you.

6th February 2012, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

i was going to go t28 as on paper its doesnt seem too bad... but after speaking to gixxa the other day he said he wasnt getting full boost (thats 20psi though) till 4k...which doesnt leave much of a powerband on a roller rocker 8v

so im having a re think atm

Should of had my big valve head then

haha One of my mates was telling me the turbo from a fc rx7 is a similar size to the t25 but he said it would be better for my kind of set up, just text him to find out what turbo he was talking about

It's not handy with me jumping the gun a bit and buying the turbo kit as a spur of the moment purchase as I know fuck all about turbo's

6th February 2012, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

It's all leading back to either a gt25r or a hybrid unit spec'd to my car at the min...

Open to suggestions from ppl like,

Depends how much power you want?

You give me a figure and I'll tell you what I think would work well

6th February 2012, 21:35

potential max of 220bhp nothing more crazy more likely 180bhp realistically turbo for that

6th February 2012, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

lol really? A, it's your car not his B, there are plenty of other people who can map for you.

Well I said I wanted to have scope for future upgrade such as a t25 or t28 If I like the feel of boost in a saxo and he said they were far too big for a 1.6... I wasn't going to argue with the guy tho because there is no doubt he does know his stuff.

6th February 2012, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

Should of had my big valve head then

haha One of my mates was telling me the turbo from a fc rx7 is a similar size to the t25 but he said it would be better for my kind of set up, just text him to find out what turbo he was talking about

It's not handy with me jumping the gun a bit and buying the turbo kit as a spur of the moment purchase as I know fuck all about turbo's

He has a fit when you mention the T word!lol. I use russ paton from performance hq at dalgety bay to do my mapping and has done a few of my friends cars, cant fault the guy. Lets you know what needs done for more power and wont just map it and throw you to the reception to pay your bill, he gives feedback which is exactly what I look for.

6th February 2012, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by 106TURBO

He has a fit when you mention the T word!lol. I use russ paton from performance hq at dalgety bay to do my mapping and has done a few of my friends cars, cant fault the guy. Lets you know what needs done for more power and wont just map it and throw you to the reception to pay your bill, he gives feedback which is exactly what I look for.

I see you are a fellow haggis muncher

where about's is this guy? Does he map dta? Sounds like a good guy to speak to tbh

6th February 2012, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

Well I said I wanted to have scope for future upgrade such as a t25 or t28 If I like the feel of boost in a saxo and he said they were far too big for a 1.6... I wasn't going to argue with the guy tho because there is no doubt he does know his stuff.

He knows his stuff for sure but when it comes to turbos he imo is V narrow minded..

A t25 isn't too big for a 1600 that's a ridiculous statement! I can't believe his logic sometimes. If you want to keep him happy say your tempted by a rotrex..

6th February 2012, 21:43

You lot are making me doubt my t28 i'm planning on using on the vtr now

Will it really be that bad?

6th February 2012, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by iSlayeR

You lot are making me doubt my t28 i'm planning on using on the vtr now

Will it really be that bad?

No, it will still be fast as fuck don't worry

6th February 2012, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

I see you are a fellow haggis muncher

where about's is this guy? Does he map dta? Sounds like a good guy to speak to tbh

yeah he done my mates dta on his supercharged 106 and done my turbocharged 106 on omex 600, I will be booking back in with him in next couple weeks. google "performancehq"

6th February 2012, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

He knows his stuff for sure but when it comes to turbos he imo is V narrow minded..

A t25 isn't too big for a 1600 that's a ridiculous statement! I can't believe his logic sometimes. If you want to keep him happy say your tempted by a rotrex..

I was under that impression but when I build it and he doesn't want to map it then I can always just bang it onto a trailer and go elsewhere... I am seriously thinking about a bigger turbo now

6th February 2012, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

After speaking to john from gmc a month ago I very much doubt he would even map a t28 set up, He nearly hung up the phone on me when I suggested it

thats cos hes a prick who knows fuck all about turbos

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

...which doesnt leave much of a powerband on a roller rocker 8v

grow some balls andrew, mines roller rockers and rev limit set to 7.6k

6th February 2012, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by 106TURBO

yeah he done my mates dta on his supercharged 106 and done my turbocharged 106 on omex 600, I will be booking back in with him in next couple weeks. google "performancehq"

What kind of price does he do for a full map? I got quoted 600-700 at gmc so wouldn't mind a cheaper place

6th February 2012, 21:51

yeah come join the gt30 club!lol

I wouldnt take it to john for mapping anyway, too many stories in his book for my liking..

6th February 2012, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

thats cos hes a prick who knows fuck all about turbos

Let's keep this a friendly discussion and not a gmc hate thread

6th February 2012, 21:51

a T 25 would be a good choice, te T2 hot side i had on mine struggled to flow over 1bar with that was 1 bar with a T25 inlet, with an external wastgate or a T25 hot side it would of been much better, a T25 would only get too hot at 1 bar if the intercooler was too small

6th February 2012, 21:52

depends how much your map needs altered etc, wouldnt think it would be asmuch as that, even if it is its the satisfaction knowing its been done right.

6th February 2012, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Depends how much power you want?

You give me a figure and I'll tell you what I think would work well

At the min I'm in two minds Danny, I'm seriously considering a new manifold and 16v lump, realistically I'm pushing my luck tryin for more in the 8v, I'd probs be happy with 210atws in this engine as I think anymore will last 5 mins

So something like the gt25r would be ideal and would transfer to 16v

But I'm not sure what to do at the min so can't really make a decision, I think 240-260 would be ideal but not in this engine lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

potential max of 220bhp nothing more crazy more likely 180bhp realistically turbo for that

Ko3s would be ideal for that, t25 be good up to 180bhp aswel, pushing luck after that

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

Should of had my big valve head then

haha One of my mates was telling me the turbo from a fc rx7 is a similar size to the t25 but he said it would be better for my kind of set up, just text him to find out what turbo he was talking about

It's not handy with me jumping the gun a bit and buying the turbo kit as a spur of the moment purchase as I know fuck all about turbo's

I know mate, but i don't want the expense of a head of again, as I may aswel 16v if I do that

6th February 2012, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by 106TURBO

depends how much your map needs altered etc, wouldnt think it would be asmuch as that, even if it is its the satisfaction knowing its been done right.

Well it would need to be done from scratch as the ecu is brand new and would need a loom spliced too

well If this guy has done a few big powered turbo's then he sounds like the right guy... how far away from glasgow is he?

6th February 2012, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

thats cos hes a prick who knows fuck all about turbos

grow some balls andrew, mines roller rockers and rev limit set to 7.6k

See I would happily do this, but everyone sais not to, gixxa said his was set at 8 i think?... on 20 psi with the vtr on double head gasket, and ran fine other then monumental lag...

You got double valve springs? Mine are standard... Will bounce lol

6th February 2012, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

I know mate, but i don't want the expense of a head of again, as I may aswel 16v if I do that

Is 16valve not for shirt lifters?

6th February 2012, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

a T 25 would be a good choice, te T2 hot side i had on mine struggled to flow over 1bar with that was 1 bar with a T25 inlet, with an external wastgate or a T25 hot side it would of been much better, a T25 would only get too hot at 1 bar if the intercooler was too small

turbo place by mine want to hybrid my turbo...wants to run t28 internals on the compressor side and leave the t25 exhaust housing, 360 bearing etc, asures me quick spool and easy do 20psi happily...asking £500 though..

not bad i suppose but im put off by gixxa saying his was spooling at 4k..as i dont think he ran a rallye inlet either

6th February 2012, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

Well it would need to be done from scratch as the ecu is brand new and would need a loom spliced too

well If this guy has done a few big powered turbo's then he sounds like the right guy... how far away from glasgow is he?

If you ask emerald to make you up a base map once you have built the cr to the spec you go for then russ can alter it to suit. heres a link about the place from lancer forum:
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=349646

I was first to get mapped on the new rollers

6th February 2012, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

Is 16valve not for shirt lifters?

indeed....but i want more power and dont want to spend masses more

, im getting to the point where i want the car faster

but im looking to set up a business..so dont want to be spunking endless sums into the saxo

if i spend about £300 i can convert to a fresh 16v...and i should be able to get £100 back off the rallye inlet...then a new turbo and i can hit 250bhp and still not have spent too much or be pusing the engine too hard

6th February 2012, 22:09

ive got uprated piper springs and have been tempted to set the rev limit to 8k as i have a fully forged and balanced bottom end

the S1 inlet making the T2/T25 laggy is weired as im running a .63 T34 and mines on full boost at 4k

6th February 2012, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by 106TURBO

If you ask emerald to make you up a base map once you have built the cr to the spec you go for then russ can alter it to suit. heres a link about the place from lancer forum:
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=349646

I was first to get mapped on the new rollers

thanks very much

I will get built up and then phone him and see what the crack is... thinking t25 now

6th February 2012, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

indeed....but i want more power and dont want to spend masses more

, im getting to the point where i want the car faster

but im looking to set up a business..so dont want to be spunking endless sums into the saxo

if i spend about £300 i can convert to a fresh 16v...and i should be able to get £100 back off the rallye inlet...then a new turbo and i can hit 250bhp and still not have spent too much or be pusing the engine too hard

that's a mighty fine plan, sell me the engine and inlet?

6th February 2012, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

ive got uprated piper springs and have been tempted to set the rev limit to 8k as i have a fully forged and balanced bottom end

the S1 inlet making the T2/T25 laggy is weired as im running a .63 T34 and mines on full boost at 4k

mines not laggy mate, hits 16psi at about 3k with big pipes and the inlet, but a t28 is looking like it may be... i dont know what size pipes or i/c he ran like, but the inlet is worse then standard one...im dropping to 2" pipes aswel

yours will be roller bearing?? so "quick" spooling...

on the roller rockers... ask sandy..he was the one that swayed me not go higher, ill defo be going to 7.2k when i get remapped, but doubt ill go higher as im not removing the head to change springs..

6th February 2012, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

that's a mighty fine plan, sell me the engine and inlet?

much you gonna give me

its done 5k since rebuild
i was just gonna remove the decomp, sell the head and scrap it..but it would make more sense for someone else to use it

6th February 2012, 22:18

no mines journal bearing but with a 360 thrust, i could of gone ball bearing but it was £1k as it was let alone a ball bearing core lol

sandy said to me he wasnt sure the limit of rollers as he doesnt use them, ive reved to 7.5 so far but i dont hold it there

6th February 2012, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

much you gonna give me

its done 5k since rebuild
i was just gonna remove the decomp, sell the head and scrap it..but it would make more sense for someone else to use it

Now that I think about it I would be better to just de-comp mine... I am a few hundred miles away from you

what size of de-comp are you using?

6th February 2012, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeqd

no mines journal bearing but with a 360 thrust, i could of gone ball bearing but it was £1k as it was let alone a ball bearing core lol

sandy said to me he wasnt sure the limit of rollers as he doesnt use them, ive reved to 7.5 so far but i dont hold it there

i was running mine on 7.5k for a while at first, i never realised, it was running fine, andy was doing some tweaks on my map online and realised it was still set for a vts limiter

yeah i recall him saying he didnt trust them that high and wanted to look into making some billet roller rocker set ups so they could be revved hard?, i think it was him i asked about a rev limit of 8k and was advised against it? may have been someone else but im pretty sure it was him?

may be lying here!?

6th February 2012, 22:24

Blackie, ideal turbo for you if you go 16v

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...t/turbocharger

6th February 2012, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Blackie, ideal turbo for you if you go 16v

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...t/turbocharger

gt1241?

dont know if you spec'ed a better turbo on the sliders, but when you send the link itll go back to base model?

6th February 2012, 22:34

What cars did the t25 and t28 come off? I thought they were on nissans but i can't seem to find any?

Ive been bidding on these 2 turbos but lost both of them, would you say they are too big for a small capacity engine?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1906353121...84.m1435.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1507472781...84.m1435.l2649

6th February 2012, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

What cars did the t25 and t28 come off? I thought they were on nissans but i can't seem to find any?

Ive been bidding on these 2 turbos but lost both of them, would you say they are too big for a small capacity engine?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1906353121...84.m1435.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1507472781...84.m1435.l2649

both ended mate...what capacity and what power you want?

s13 200sx run t25
rovers run t25
saabs run t25

some s14' runs t28
pulsar runs t28 iirc?
some fiat coupes run t28

erm..

6th February 2012, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

What cars did the t25 and t28 come off? I thought they were on nissans but i can't seem to find any?

Ive been bidding on these 2 turbos but lost both of them, would you say they are too big for a small capacity engine?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1906353121...84.m1435.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1507472781...84.m1435.l2649

The sr20det came with a t28 iirc and that's from the likes of an s14, pulser ect. I am sure the t25 was on the 1.8 s13 too?

6th February 2012, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

gt1241?

dont know if you spec'ed a better turbo on the sliders, but when you send the link itll go back to base model?

Try again, I copied the wring link...it should be a GT2554R

6th February 2012, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Try again, I copied the wring link...it should be a GT2554R

its going straight back to the base again,
but i know the model so ill have a read tommorow on my brake

6th February 2012, 22:41

Guys the pulsar, 200sx run a GT28.. There's a difference they are ball bearing.

Also skyline r34 GTR use GT28R and some models like the nur spec and other limited editions use a gt2860r (gt28rs)

Edit s14 200sx

Also the s15 200sx uses a GT28R

6th February 2012, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

both ended mate...what capacity and what power you want?

s13 200sx run t25
rovers run t25
saabs run t25

some s14' runs t28
pulsar runs t28 iirc?
some fiat coupes run t28

erm..

Its 1.8 with 123bhp standard, aiming for about 200

manifold i can get has t3 flange hence looking at them but you can get adapters for t25 so thats another option

want something that spools very quick

6th February 2012, 22:44

someone possibley grab a bargain

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/garrett-t2...#ht_594wt_1270

6th February 2012, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Guys the pulsar, 200sx run a GT28.. There's a difference they are ball bearing.

Also skyline r34 GTR use GT28R and some models like the nur spec and other limited editions use a gt2860r (gt28rs)

Edit s14 200sx

Also the s15 200sx uses a GT28R

you sure thats not just certain specs mate?

http://www.turbotechnics.com/turbo/s186.htm

6th February 2012, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

Its 1.8 with 123bhp standard, aiming for about 200

manifold i can get has t3 flange hence looking at them but you can get adapters for t25 so thats another option

want something that spools very quick

Not many smaller turbos come with a t3 flange but garret do make housings that will fit direct so you could get a gt28r for example then fit the t3 exh housing, this then would be labelled a hybrid

6th February 2012, 22:53

problem is dont have much money, got £150 to spend on turbo so cant really buy a new garrett

6th February 2012, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

you sure thats not just certain specs mate?

http://www.turbotechnics.com/turbo/s186.htm

Apparently the JDM models use ball bearing t28's (so gt28).
I suppose the ukdm just got normal t28s..

6th February 2012, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mieran

problem is dont have much money, got £150 to spend on turbo so cant really buy a new garrett

If you can modify the flange then td04 or k03 will be quick spooling for around 200bhp+ and they are cheap

7th February 2012, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

someone possibley grab a bargain

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/garrett-t2...#ht_594wt_1270

lol not so cheep now lol

7th February 2012, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Like I said lol 210-220@wheels. Shauns car made 217@wheels with gt25r so fairly consistent.
A gt28rs is a different game all together. One turbo makes 220@wheels the other makes around 290-300@wheels depending on spec.
The gt25r will spool up around 1k-1.5k quicker.

Whats the max sort of psi would be able to run the gt25r at?? Would it runout of puff before redline?

The quick spool time is something thats making me want to go for that turbo.

7th February 2012, 17:02

i will have an impreza td05 for grabs soon, ive seen some use them on saxo before £100 any use?

7th February 2012, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexy_gt

i will have an impreza td05 for grabs soon, ive seen some use them on saxo before £100 any use?

If someone can verify if this would be good for my setup and fairly quick spooling (budget low boost 16v, standard internals, approx 190-200bhp) then I would be interested!

Also, what flange has it got for the downpipe? I will have a cituning dp with the 3 bolt housing on it

7th February 2012, 23:58

It won't be quick spooling, buy it will make fantastic power. It's a 300hp+ turbo

8th February 2012, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsdvtr

Whats the max sort of psi would be able to run the gt25r at?? Would it runout of puff before redline?

The quick spool time is something thats making me want to go for that turbo.

Well you need to look at the compressor map to see how much boost it will be efficient at.
Also you need to look at exh housing options.. As a general rule if your revving a smaller turbo you would want the larger exh housing.

8th February 2012, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Well you need to look at the compressor map to see how much boost it will be efficient at.
Also you need to look at exh housing options.. As a general rule if your revving a smaller turbo you would want the larger exh housing.

Im not sure how those graphs work

9th February 2012, 15:17

The area in the middle of the graph is called the efficiency island you want to aim to run the turbo in this area for maximum efficiency. More power with as little heat added to the inlet charge.

Tom

10th February 2012, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by unreal106

The area in the middle of the graph is called the efficiency island you want to aim to run the turbo in this area for maximum efficiency. More power with as little heat added to the inlet charge.

Tom

Thanks tom. Might make abit more sense to me now haha

10th February 2012, 06:52

If plotting your engine data on a Compressor Map, you have to be careful as some companies (BorgWarner for one), use TOTAL absolute pressure for the pressure ratio, and not just absolute static pressure (static pressure is what is measures, total pressure = static pressure + dynamic pressure)

And mass flow is usually corrected to a reference temperture and pressure. This can significantly change plotted points on a map

10th February 2012, 14:21

Posted this on the general chat, but thought it'd be suited here too.

Came across a 106 GTI turbo on the 'bay earlier today,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/peugeot-10...item3cc18f7240

and have been contemplating it. I'm part way through building my own turbo conversion - but maybe the way to go is to buy one that's already been done - save the beer tokens!

What's everyone think? Still running standard internals from what I can see and not even got a de-comp plate

But at 240bhp that's some mega good fun! ... until it blows up 2miles down the road

10th February 2012, 18:17

Anybody able to help me on what size de-comp I need on a vtr? I have a tiny tiny turbo for now but going t25 in the summer

cheers.

10th February 2012, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

Anybody able to help me on what size de-comp I need on a vtr? I have a tiny tiny turbo for now but going t25 in the summer

cheers.

Where are you buying the Decomp plate from? If your buying from ferriday engineering then he will be able to advise you on compression ratio. He's built hundreds of engines so is very capable.

10th February 2012, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Where are you buying the Decomp plate from? If your buying from ferriday engineering then he will be able to advise you on compression ratio. He's built hundreds of engines so is very capable.

Yes it would be ferriday that I will buy it from I will phone up on monday

What are the rest of the vtr's on this site running?

10th February 2012, 18:36

lads ive a issue with my 8/16v hybrid build, i thought for a cheap blast id use standard vts engine decomp it. for serious track use who has used standard boosted pistons? im thinking 0.8-0.9 bar via c3074 rotorex. enough for 200 flywheel power

10th February 2012, 18:43

I personally can't see that being a problem but eventually fatigue will take hold and you will need to do something about it.

I'm going to be using this method for track work this year, then at the end of the year j will change to my forged engine.. I'm hoping it will last. There's only one way to find out

and that's with 1 bar of boost and 260@wheels

10th February 2012, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by -shuggles-

Yes it would be ferriday that I will buy it from I will phone up on monday

What are the rest of the vtr's on this site running?

im running a 1mm decomp +1.9mm mls head gasket shuggs.

blackie runs 2mm decomp and a 1.9mm hg also iirc as his vtr head had been skimmed a fair wack.

danny runs??? 2mm??

EDIT: ha dannys is not a 8v though!!

10th February 2012, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo1600

im running a 1mm decomp +1.9mm mls head gasket shuggs.

blackie runs 2mm decomp and a 1.9mm hg also iirc as his vtr head had been skimmed a fair wack.

danny runs??? 2mm??

EDIT: ha dannys is not a 8v though!!

what turbo ect where you running?

I might go 2mm then with a standard size gasket since my head has never been skimmed

10th February 2012, 19:19

sounds good shuggs. just make sure its a very good quality gasket.

ring ferriday as said to make sure you buy what he suggests.

im running a k03 turbo. and it hasnt spooled at all yet due to me being to incompotent to wire in my ecu.

Ive fitted a good condition head, which hasnt been skimmed, davo was selling a ferriday 1mm decomp failry cheap so i brought that.

10th February 2012, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo1600

sounds good shuggs. just make sure its a very good quality gasket.

ring ferriday as said to make sure you buy what he suggests.

im running a k03 turbo. and it hasnt spooled at all yet due to me being to incompotent to wire in my ecu.

Ive fitted a good condition head, which hasnt been skimmed, davo was selling a ferriday 1mm decomp failry cheap so i brought that.

You're the one that bought it? you cunt

10th February 2012, 19:33

depends on the CR you want mate, if sticking with a t25 an not really pushing it beyond..a 2mm decomp and 0.6-0.8mm gasket should give you a nice CR

i wanted to go quite low and my head is on the bones lol, so i went 2mm and 1.9 as said..

10th February 2012, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackie_2k5

depends on the CR you want mate, if sticking with a t25 an not really pushing it beyond..a 2mm decomp and 0.6-0.8mm gasket should give you a nice CR

i wanted to go quite low and my head is on the bones lol, so i went 2mm and 1.9 as said..

to be honest I don't know a great deal about cr... I am using gav's old quicky set up and going to save and buy a cituning manifold with a second hand t25 then mapped

I might go for a 2mm and standard gasket?

10th February 2012, 19:40

Blackie, put up your most recent graph so we can see how your CR and turbo choice effect things.

This is meant to be a turbocharger thread with dyno plots, compressor maps and turbine wheel sizes to get people talking about different options.

10th February 2012, 20:07

my most recent ones are useless tbf mate, i booked the dyno day to be after id been mapped, but id been having loads of trouble with the car..

id been haunted with issues that i only worked out were down to fuel pressure/pump not long after second map, got mapped on 15psi with a restricitve induction set up, and had a massive hold in one of my boost pipes.. so in effect it felt worse on 15psi then it did on 10

removed the filter set up and it felt much better...found the hole night before RR day..fixed that and BOOM..quick as fuck!! but fueling issues were magnified(occasionally not supplying enough and dying off..more often over fueling...amount in tank dependant)

im hoping we can identify the odd shape of the power plot in the most recent one..im thinking its because the turbo is strugling on 15psi, looks like its running out of puff quite soon lol(unknown miles and had play when fitted) it was only supposed to be a temporary turbo but its holding out better then i thought lol!! i was going to get it hybrid rebuilt

so its off the road now to address the issues and fit some new stuff, and hopefully a new turbo, then remap to see if weve cured the problems

most recent:

original..with a much better power plot..but that was actuator pressure of 10psi..so the turbo isnt working hard here:

the compression ratio is around the mid to low 8's(aimed for mid 8s but head is really skimmed so couldnt work out properly), its hitting 15-16psi at just over 3k..but i have a rallye inlet(large plenum to fill), and 2.25" pipework (replacing with 2" asap)

on this set up, it hit 10psi at just over 2k, so even with low CR and big boost pipes(the circuit is quite long aswel..being revised with 2" stuff)

the t25 is pretty good turbo to run at 10-14psi, anything more and id defo look at a diff unit

10th February 2012, 20:18

Here's some Very useful sites to try and understand compressor maps etc.. Also helps you work out how boost you can run before speeding the air up makes no difference so more pressure results in little gains.

http://www.ztechz.net/id6.html

Another one with dozens of compressor maps on, will more than likely see your turbo on here

http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/all.html

It's saying my turbos peak efficiency is approx 24psi and it would flow around 375bhp if the engine conditions were perfect. Any more boost then gas speed wouldn't result in more power but boost pressure would give me a little more but at the expense of heat.

10th February 2012, 20:30

second link is quite good, going to see if i can find the map for my turbo later, ive done a fair bit of reading on compressor maps..there is a section devoted to it in that book i sold the other day "forced induction performance tuning"

ive just never really read up on the t25 i have as i never intended to use it for too long at first...and thought ill just run 10psi for a while till i either break it or build a forged lump..

but then realised the non forged route isnt as fragile as certain ppl like to make you think... guessing thats for their own financal gains

id like to see alot more ppl post up their specs/graphs and experiences aswel tbh, im really enjoying this thread, its one of the better discussions that rarely pop up o here, danny you can lead on with the beast

EDIT- acutally theyre both good sites, theres lots of nice reading on the ztech site

10th February 2012, 22:16

what do we think to a 2052 i think as discussed on previous page for a gti on a mild setup

11th February 2012, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophia_Bush

what do we think to a 2052 i think as discussed on previous page for a gti on a mild setup

I think it would be a great little turbo for a fast road car, would provide an almost n/a like power curve but with the torque to match.

11th February 2012, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

It's saying my turbos peak efficiency is approx 24psi and it would flow around 375bhp if the engine conditions were perfect. Any more boost then gas speed wouldn't result in more power but boost pressure would give me a little more but at the expense of heat.

Danny, be very careful of estimating your pressure ratio. If you look on the y-axis you will see: Pressure Ratio (t/t) P2c/P1c. This means the TOTAL pressure, not the static pressure (static pressure is what is measured by a boost gauge), so you need to add your dynamic pressure (1/2.p.v^2) to your static pressure to calculate the total pressure.

So to work out your dynamic pressure you need to know mass flow rate, area in, area out, temp in, temp out aswell as static pressure in and out. This makes a HUGE difference in the pressure ratio you need to plot on a compressor map.

I have been doing some turbo matching at work recently and fell into this trap. I have seen a reduction in pressure ratio of nearly 1 point by using the correct TOTAL pressure ratio compared to just using static.

If you want further explaining pm me.

11th February 2012, 10:18

Here is a V V good thread to read if your having issues understanding compressor maps. This thread tells you how work out what power you can make and when the turbo is able to spool up for

http://www.d-series.org/forums/archi...g-dummies.html

Your welcome

11th February 2012, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by yr51ocw

Danny, be very careful of estimating your pressure ratio. If you look on the y-axis you will see: Pressure Ratio (t/t) P2c/P1c. This means the TOTAL pressure, not the static pressure (static pressure is what is measured by a boost gauge), so you need to add your dynamic pressure (1/2.p.v^2) to your static pressure to calculate the total pressure.

So to work out your dynamic pressure you need to know mass flow rate, area in, area out, temp in, temp out aswell as static pressure in and out. This makes a HUGE difference in the pressure ratio you need to plot on a compressor map.

I have been doing some turbo matching at work recently and fell into this trap. I have seen a reduction in pressure ratio of nearly 1 point by using the correct TOTAL pressure ratio compared to just using static.

If you want further explaining pm me.

Cumon Marc im not that stupid lol

11th February 2012, 10:21

Edit, the only thing I'm not able to work out is at what pressure my car will start becoming inefficient. But I will soon see that on the dyno.

Using the compressor maps I have posted is as close as I will be able to get to properly comparing all turbos as neither do I have the money or facilities to properly test what's best.

Your input into this thread is very important to me though so the more you can bring to it and I will be able to learn more.

11th February 2012, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

Cumon Marc im not that stupid lol

Its funny that you claim to know this, but both links you have posted have hugely flawed and have made the common mistake of using:

Pressure Ratio= P2(abs)/P1(abs)

And have not used the correct formula of:

Pressure Ratio = P2(total)/P1(total)

Where total pressure = Static + atmospheric + dynamic

So the links you have posted will misguide people into thinking they are running a higher pressure ratio than they actually are.

If I remember I will scan in a couple of compressor maps I have been working with where I have plotted the raw data and the corrected data and you will see the vast difference it makes.

11th February 2012, 19:44

That's fair enough Marc but using the formula in my link I worked how much power my car should have at certain boost level and rpm and it perfectly matched the results my car made on the RR...

This gives me confidence the above links are perfectly useable for people like me and other people on this forum. Perhaps not the 'true' way but certainly accurate.

11th February 2012, 19:50

oh for sure, to get you in the right ball park for turbo sizing its perfectly adequate!

But if people are going to get really hung up about efficiency then you need all the info. Efficiency is the name of the game in OEM stuff at the minute which is the reason I have been looking into it.

13th February 2012, 10:26

Without forged internals, you're playing with fire - and it WILL eventually melt a piston/break a con rod or something.

But out of interest, how reliable would a turbo conversion be if it did have forged internals? More or less 100%? Would it need forged pistons, con rods and con rod bolts OR just pistons & bolts?

13th February 2012, 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by yr51ocw

oh for sure, to get you in the right ball park for turbo sizing its perfectly adequate!

But if people are going to get really hung up about efficiency then you need all the info. Efficiency is the name of the game in OEM stuff at the minute which is the reason I have been looking into it.

Agree there Marc, if you have anything we can look at from your work I'd greatly appreciate it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedo

Without forged internals, you're playing with fire - and it WILL eventually melt a piston/break a con rod or something.

But out of interest, how reliable would a turbo conversion be if it did have forged internals? More or less 100%? Would it need forged pistons, con rods and con rod bolts OR just pistons & bolts?

eventually is a key word, the fueling you use and the management and mapper is the most important factor in this IMO.
At the end of the day if you are putting 100% more load through the internals their life is going to be substantially shortened.

I've know a few people run over 300hp with forged pistons, standard rods and arp rod bolts. Anymore than this then forged rods are a good idea.

13th February 2012, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

eventually is a key word, the fueling you use and the management and mapper is the most important factor in this IMO.
At the end of the day if you are putting 100% more load through the internals their life is going to be substantially shortened.

I've know a few people run over 300hp with forged pistons, standard rods and arp rod bolts. Anymore than this then forged rods are a good idea.

Awesome, cheers for the heads up

13th February 2012, 11:12

Hi everyone, im now near completing a turbo conversion on my vts, I will be running a kkk turbo off a seat Leon at about 9-10 psi

Has anyone ever run one of these, how fast did it spool up and what sort of power was it giving out?

13th February 2012, 11:21

thats the turbo im running - ive heard lots of good feedback from members on here so it should be quite a good fun turbo.

well i say running. mine hasn't even been started up yet!

fast spool with a good broad power band. perfect for a road car.

13th February 2012, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jones91

Hi everyone, im now near completing a turbo conversion on my vts, I will be running a kkk turbo off a seat Leon at about 9-10 psi

Has anyone ever run one of these, how fast did it spool up and what sort of power was it giving out?

What Leon?
Is it 180hp cupra or a 210/225 hp cupra R?

The k04 on the cupra r is a great choice for a vts imo and I don't think it has done before?

13th February 2012, 11:59

I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to turbo conversions. Never done 1 before.

What parts would I be needing to do the conversion?

Turbo
Boost controller
Intercooler
Hoses
Radiator
ECU

What other stuff would I need?

13th February 2012, 12:16

take a look here buddy - clicky

Also i think there may be a thread on here a while back with more turbo parts on it. might be a few pages back in the saxo engine/performance.

13th February 2012, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pug205

I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to turbo conversions. Never done 1 before.

What parts would I be needing to do the conversion?

Turbo
Boost controller
Intercooler
Hoses
Radiator
ECU

What other stuff would I need?

Here's a parts list, as well as approximate prices so you know what you're getting yourself into!
http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=397947

good luck!

13th February 2012, 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo1600

take a look here buddy - clicky

Also i think there may be a thread on here a while back with more turbo parts on it. might be a few pages back in the saxo engine/performance.

Damn got there before me! Although I think I've linked the thread you were talking about

13th February 2012, 12:25

This is a turbocharger thread not a turbo conversion thread !

13th February 2012, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

This is a turbocharger thread not a turbo conversion thread !

Even so, I feel this thread has also incorporated the numerous questions people have about turbo charging. Probably better to keep them all here, than starting a new thread each time!

13th February 2012, 12:36

danny ask a mod to move all the "conversion" stuff into the other thread? this one should be kept sep otherwise it will turn into the same old

13th February 2012, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedo

Even so, I feel this thread has also incorporated the numerous questions people have about turbo charging. Probably better to keep them all here, than starting a new thread each time!

There are DOZENS of threads on turbo conversions.

I started this one with the aim of gathering information about turbos.specs, choices and the effect they have on the TU engine.

So I'd like to keep it that way if possible.

13th February 2012, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

There are DOZENS of threads on turbo conversions.

I started this one with the aim of gathering information about turbos.specs, choices and the effect they have on the TU engine.

So I'd like to keep it that way if possible.

Yep fair enough, why I tried to steer the question onto a different thread, rather than answer here

13th February 2012, 13:56

Stevo I haven't got mine running properly yet either, still waiting for my ecu to come

And bytheway It is the turbo off the 180bhp Leon

13th February 2012, 20:30

Stick the turbo conversion questions in here!

http://www.saxperience.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=382703

14th February 2012, 09:06

Thanks! I used search but kept on bringing this thread up! I'll keep an eye on the other thread

6th March 2012, 20:48

Bump !

10th March 2012, 07:08

i have not ran the engine on mine yet, i have a stock pile of turbos that i have collected to mess around with, T25, T28 x2 off a twin turbo skyline, t04e turbo around the same size as a T3 and a TD05 16g turbo. would love to get the car up and running and mess about with manifolds and turbos and comment on them all but time is a major issue and the fact that i am not a mapping genius and dont fancy paying shit loads for maps all the time, but me and a mate are working on the mapping ;D. just want to pull my finger out and get on with it. my thinking behind the t25 turbo was from what i have heard it spools up really early and makes decent power but will run hot at high boost levels, t28's were taken on the theory that the turbo wont need to boost as much and not run as hot but make the same power or more. the t04e was bought as it was a hybrid and brand new and i got it with a manifold that i was messing around with, the td05 came off the back of danny getting some really good results and it seemed to bridge the gap between a gt28rs and the next turbo in the gt series gt2871rs?? lol

10th March 2012, 07:10

i got the t04e turbo as it did not have an internal wastegate and was intending on using the external wastegate on the manifold. i will get round to messing around with them all sometime lol, unless anyone wants one of them? lol

its around the same size unit as the t28

3rd April 2012, 23:37

Where is the best/cheapest place to buy turbos from???...Im prob looking for something from the Garrett range.

4th April 2012, 05:48

America, but then you have to pay import tax and more shipping.. It often still ends up being cheaper though lol

4th April 2012, 17:51

Garrett T34 .63 AR60 (1.6 8v) 15 psi

4th April 2012, 18:02

Impressive!

Is that ATF?

4th April 2012, 18:04

yes at the fly
still to have a smaller exhaust housing, bigger injectors and pump and a new exhaust manifold so i can run 2 bar with the water/meth

4th April 2012, 18:37

Im trying to find figures on an 8v running a Garrett GT series charger and at what psi of pressure. Obviously with everything else spec'd, head, bottom end inlet etc.

4th April 2012, 19:15

What compression ratios are people running?
I am looking at running something similar to a GT2554R or a GT2854R with a CR of 9.5:1.

4th April 2012, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyno

What compression ratios are people running?
I am looking at running something similar to a GT2554R or a GT2854R with a CR of 9.5:1.

That seems the wrong way around to me. You'd normally run a lower CR with bigger turbo not vice versa.

Most people run 9.0-1 forged pistons but often use a thick head gasket which knocks it even lower.

4th April 2012, 20:06

mines 8.8:1, i would of run it in the 10's but cant due to the nitrous

4th April 2012, 20:14

I am wanting an engine that is lively low down in the rev range that makes decent power. Trying to find ways to achieve this.

So that is why I am thinking small quick spooling turbo with highish compression to make good power...as opposed to larger turbo with the usual 9.0:1 CR which makes good power but has lag...or am I completely missing the point? lol

4th April 2012, 20:17

No you could be on the right track, lots of people have different opinions and ways of doing things.

What sort of power do you want? This will determine a lot of thongs that need to be catered for.

4th April 2012, 20:24

.........

4th April 2012, 20:24

As said, all boils down to where you want to use the car, what peak power you want... and at what rpm you want what power

4th April 2012, 20:26

Anybody?

4th April 2012, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by R16vLYE

Im trying to find figures on an 8v running a Garrett GT series charger and at what psi of pressure. Obviously with everything else spec'd, head, bottom end inlet etc.

I don't really know anyone who's running that spec.

I know cituning did a 1800 8v that made good power and sounded great but think it broke.

4th April 2012, 20:56

without sounding like a bigheaded cunt, i think mine is the only big budget 8v, all the other big budget ones are 16v

4th April 2012, 21:01

I am wanting something around 250 wheel power but with good pick up when in the low revs - primarily for road. To be honest I am just plucking figures out of the air here, as I have no concept of what 250whp feels like in a 8/900kg tin can lol. However, I am probably only going to do this build once so I need a set up that scares me when I put my foot down and is not going to bore me in a years time. (Also something that puts 'faster' cars to shame).

4th April 2012, 21:07

250whp car flys trust me.. Not a lot of things will trouble you.
Also unless you have tens of thousands of pounds there is no such thing as a massive turbo that spools instantly or a small turbo that makes the numbers..THER IS ALWAYS A COMPRAMISE... it's up to you what that compramise is.

You would need a gt28 to flow those sort of figures

4th April 2012, 21:09

The stroked 8v cituning engine is still on eBay iirc Danny, or it was for a while, want daft money for it though

4th April 2012, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannygti

250whp car flys trust me.. Not a lot of things will trouble you.
Also unless you have tens of thousands of pounds there is no such thing as a massive turbo that spools instantly or a small turbo that makes the numbers..THER IS ALWAYS A COMPRAMISE... it's up to you what that compramise is.

You would need a gt28 to flow those sort of figures

Well there is a build similar to the kind of spec that I am after. This was running approx 220 whp at 14 psi with a CR of around 9.0-1. This is with a GT2554R turbo i think.
My logic was to use a similar size turbo with a slightly higher CR to get somewhere nearer my desired goal of decent power with quick pick up.

I just need some suggestions and a lot of advice lol

4th April 2012, 21:29

Your not going to gain 30whp with a slight rise in CR. The overall power figure won't be that different. The main advantages will be quicker spool, better off boost power and a bit more torque.

if it will be for street use only then 220atw is plenty fast enough tbh. The next power level will more than likely need a change in frame of turbo upto the gt28 size turbos. A gt28r will still have relatively decent spool (16v) but will flow much more power.
Sometimes losing a bit of spool for a LOT of power can be ok. But it would be a bit dangerous as a street car lol

4th April 2012, 22:04

When does a gt28r start to spool? Is this the gt2560r on the Garret website? As the other gt28**r turbos are for 1.8 engines and above.

4th April 2012, 22:20

Yes that's a gt28r, there are different housing options that will change the character of the power band.

There isn't enough turbo saxo's out there to get a solid databae or straight answer like that so it's hard to say.
I'd imagine it to start spoiling at 2.5k and be on full boost (1bar) by about 4k. So if your revving to 7.5k you will have a SOLID 3.5k powerband which is great tbh..

4th April 2012, 22:45

Danny what's involved in getting an engine, what's not going to be unreliable at about 250 atw like low comp pistons what else?, what's does a stroker kit actually do I know it increases the cc but what else, would it lower compresion and strengthen the bottom end or have I got it all completly wrong ?

4th April 2012, 22:51

To get the engine 250whp isn't so much of a problem these days. Forged pistons would really be needed and I would also fit forged conrods. Then with the rest of the setup well matched and well though out a 250whp engine would be spot on.
Problem your going to hit with that sort of power and torque is your gearbox,clutch etc.

Striker kits use a longer throw crank to get the extra displacement.

4th April 2012, 22:56

Ohh I'm getting the grasp slowly lol, I understand the bottom end part I think, but what about the head what do you do about strengthening that ?